jon-eli

Uhm... wherefore doth ye get such infos?

Julio

Moses INVENTED Jehovah – Exodus 6:3. He wrote Genesis or small parts thereof. He is the one who writes about this variation of El. But above all, Jehovah is a MAD demiurge in deeds. Therefore: he is a MALE idol to scare illiterate slaves.

Sheshbazzar

Not the one I am talking about, the one that was believed in by individuals long before his name was hijacked by the lying writers and kings, to turn his formerly good name into such a vile boogeyman to scare tribal groups, and slaves, into obedience and conformity with the plots and plans of these elite power mongers.

Abraham, and many other individuals before, dealt with YHWH their Elohim one-on-one.
No one dictated to these individuals of faith, at all what it was that they -had- to believe, or what books (scrolls), and writings they -had- to read, accept, or conform their thoughts and actions to.
Better that all religious writings were burned to ashes, and forever forgotten, that men of faith would again walk purely by faith in the invisible power that provides all things, than that even one religious writing of men survive, thereby betraying men of faith into devotion to the visible works of men's deceitful hands.
But it is what it is, and therefore the evils of the organised crime called religions prosper, and men of faith are the few and the reviled.

jon-eli

I'm not even convinced that Moses ever existed, let alone that he invented anything. But even if he did exist, the idea that he wrote the Pentateuch seems awfully posthumous... a bit like the attribution of the first synoptic gospel to John Mark's pen.

I can understand what you're getting at, apart from the bit about slaves... What slaves are we talking about?

Julio

“Slaves” here is to mean those Egyptians by birth, living in Egypt then for 10 generations [the best country in those days], therefore not Hebrews anymore… if I can put it that way.
Many of those so-called “slaves” were very well off, themselves with slaves to serve them, and even intellectuals, and engineers and architects who could build cities!
Consequently, what an incognito “Moses” wrote in Exodus is 50% his fertile imagination after nights in the moonlight smoking Hashish.
The other 50% is addendums from an entrepreneurial hand with an eye on the COMMERCE the script would do in later centuries!…
There!

IamJoseph

Agreed. If one subscribes to an infinite universe - then there will be a total conflict with premises derived from a finite uni. Two different things. Here, one can only legitimately debate Genesis if they first preamble which universe they are talking about: if a finite, my bet is they will loose all arguements in favor of Genesis.

IamJoseph

There are only 'two' choices: a finite or infinite universe; Creationism or [?] - "not creationism". Let's never forget we have no alternative on the table to Creationism - not even a oner. That's not bad odds - the reason it is uppermost in all debates with super intellectuals as yourself. But citing adjectives is not a valid arguement. :notworthy:

Julio

OK. But what if there is neither a finite nor an infinite universe?
I bet you can never define the infinite with a finite mind!…
Therefore: Genesis is not the truth in universal definitions.

IamJoseph

Much would have to be explained in tangent. Try to list your ancesters just three generations back - their correct names, dob and dods and addresses. Moses appears to have mastered this feat for a period of some 2500 years before him - perhaps with a magical time machine and a super PC - no librararies or photocopy machines either?

Then he declared the universe is finite with a beginning; recalled all the corrrect life form grads [species], veg to humans; dated the advent of human speech [still not negatable today], introduced the day and week, and the oldest and most accurate calendar in existence. Not to mention a host of laws followed exclusively by the world's institutions today. Medicine was also introduced in the Mosaic books - separating itsef from the occult for the first time with the introduction of contagious, infectious deseases, and their treatment, ID & quarantine [Leprosy]. I find the greatest census, in their millions, also in the Mosaic books - and all in the first alphabetical books too.

Then he became more believed in than any other human on the face of the earth: 2B chrstians, 1.2 B muslims and 14M Jews. What is your yardstick of comprables here - I'm listening? :constern01:

No idols, no male, notwithstanding the limitations of language and being lost in translation. How can you allocate as male what is declared as varied from anything in the universe?

IamJoseph

Before this goes on the table - you have to nominate a third option.

You mean like:

'NO MAN SHALL KNOW ME AND LIVE'?

Or:

'AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH SO ARE MY THOUGHTS HIGHER THAN YOURS'?



Negations per se do not qualify. And we have no alternative to Genesis - I studied all of QM and the latest state of art science books. :huh: