Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 09-18-2012, 03:03 PM

this actually strengthens the mythicist case. there is no "life of Jesus." just a bunch of partisans weaving their ow. myths

stephan huller · 09-18-2012, 03:08 PM

alin suciu says there is no way to date coptic manuscripts. where does the fourth century date come from?

Toto · 09-18-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

alin suciu says there is no way to date coptic manuscripts. where does the fourth century date come from?

According to the Q&A

Quote:

9. What is the approximate date of the material fragment?

Newly discovered papyrus writings like this one are dated by close examination of the materials (papyrus and ink) and by comparing the handwriting with known examples. Experienced papyrologists can see that the papyrus is clearly ancient, and chemical analysis of the ink will also be performed. The handwriting of the scribe who copied down the Gospel of Jesus's Wife most closely resembles other papyri from approximately the fourth century, although it seems the scribe wrote with a nubby pen that didn’t let the ink flow well, causing uneven letters and blotting.

stephan huller · 09-18-2012, 03:52 PM

alin says that's bullshit. coptic cant be dated firmly

Toto · 09-18-2012, 03:58 PM

Even if they could date the Coptic, King seems to be saying that the fragment is a translation of a Greek text from the second century. This seems to be guesswork, although I haven't read everything on the issue.

stephan huller · 09-18-2012, 04:00 PM

alin and many others at the conference say the manuscript itself is weird. like nothing they've seen before

Toto · 09-18-2012, 04:01 PM

April DeConick

Quote:

I am thinking that the fragment is from a Valentinian text, like the Gospel of Philip, whose author is aware of the alternative sayings traditions that we find also embedded in Gospel of Thomas. It makes perfect sense in this context and is consistent with what we already know about ideology in early Valentinian Gnostic Christianity.

stephan huller · 09-18-2012, 04:04 PM

yeah broads would like this. better than jesus the misogynist. alin thinks it looks like a "gross forgery"

stephan huller · 09-18-2012, 04:17 PM

a pre-published by King on this subject:

http://www.hds.harvard.edu/sites/hds...draft_0917.pdf

in it there is this concession with her own desperate attempt to give it the earliest possible date:

Quote:

Coptic palaeography is notoriously difficult to date. Within the limits of the current state of the field, the handwriting of our papyrus seems to belong in the second half of the 4th century.

This is followed by the claim that effectively - even though all Coptic texts look pretty much like other Coptic texts, we should accept a fourth century date. The facts are the text could be 4 - whatever century. No one knows.

Minimalist · 09-18-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

"She repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married.

Nor should it be taken as proof that there was a historical person at all.

Zeus, as I recall, also had a wife.

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09-18-2012, 03:03 PM	#11
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	this actually strengthens the mythicist case. there is no "life of Jesus." just a bunch of partisans weaving their ow. myths

09-18-2012, 03:08 PM	#12
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	alin suciu says there is no way to date coptic manuscripts. where does the fourth century date come from?

09-18-2012, 03:52 PM	#14
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	alin says that's bullshit. coptic cant be dated firmly

09-18-2012, 03:58 PM	#15
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Even if they could date the Coptic, King seems to be saying that the fragment is a translation of a Greek text from the second century. This seems to be guesswork, although I haven't read everything on the issue.

09-18-2012, 04:00 PM	#16
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	alin and many others at the conference say the manuscript itself is weird. like nothing they've seen before

09-18-2012, 04:04 PM	#18
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	yeah broads would like this. better than jesus the misogynist. alin thinks it looks like a "gross forgery"

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