Freethought & Rationalism Archive

richard2 · 01-30-2006, 12:15 PM

Hi,

What was it like? If you're an atheist now, how do you explain what happened to you?

Personally, I can remember one thing that happened to me as a Christian that -- well, I don't know if you'd call it "mystical experiences", but it was kinda strange. Once, when I was questioning my faith, I was thinking about the doctrine of original sin and eternal punishment. How could God justify sending us to hell? Before I read any theology or apologetics, I figured that Adam and Eve's turning away from God had an eternal and infinite effect on the Creator. While I was thinking about this, it felt like someone blew smoke into my ear, and it felt like the smoke encapsulated my brain. Being a Christian, I interpreted this 'smoke' as the Holy Spirit. It was weird. I still don't know how to explain it.

Anyone else?

richard

Astreja · 01-30-2006, 01:37 PM

Not counting the many interesting encounters I've had in meditations and dreams, here are two incidents that really stand out in my mind:

1. Once, when about to step off the curb, I collided with something invisible that broke my stride and caused me to hesitate for about half a second. And then a large truck ran the red light, right through the coordinates that I *almost* stepped into.

2. My ex-spouse threatened to kill my best friend and then commit suicide. A moment later, I heard a voice whisper in my left ear: "Get... out!" (I did. I left that very night and divorced the jerk.)

johno · 01-30-2006, 01:49 PM

I have seen the ramparts of heaven, ablaze, golden in the firmament of heaven. At least that's what they looked like. Strangely I never believed that I was experiencing anything other than an hallucination. A couple of days later I went to the library and discovered exercise-induced migraine. Fortification spectra are symptoms of migraine. I saw the vision after a desperately over-the-top workout at the gym---What's the point of going to the gym if you don't intend to die there? So what did I see? As a scientist I had taken some courses in physiology, enough to seek a materialistic cause for what I had experienced. Had I been mystically inclined I could have made a career out of a well-understood idiosyncracy of my physiology, but God never came into it. It was an amazing spectacle for all that, and it went a long way towards convincing me that some of the visionaries have honestly described their subjective experiences but were too besotted with religion and too ignorant of physiology to be willing to or able to account for them in materialistic terms.

johno

Koyaanisqatsi · 01-30-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

richard2: While I was thinking about this, it felt like someone blew smoke into my ear, and it felt like the smoke encapsulated my brain. Being a Christian, I interpreted this 'smoke' as the Holy Spirit. It was weird. I still don't know how to explain it.

I disagree. You just explained it perfectly. You experienced something unfamiliar (internally) and attributed it to your beliefs. Happens all the time. Ever read Revelation?

richard2 · 02-04-2006, 11:55 AM

Do you think it was a hallucination? My experience causes me to doubt a lot about my rejecting Christianity, but, then again, I have what I think are good reasons to reject it. I don't know what's true anymore.

RidingtheScree · 02-04-2006, 01:29 PM

dreams can be vivid, I've had some that seem somewhat prophetic upon waking but which in retrospect are mere image renderings (usually very simple and obvious) of thoughts about myself. One in particular I enjoyed and thought was very on par with self-observation. It was very scary and cool, like a horror movie. But it was very simple and powerful. The brain is a good entertainer, and helps you along in your endevors.

David B · 02-04-2006, 01:35 PM

I've had things I've interpreted as mystical experiences at the time.

But which now I interpret naturalistically, as experiences during sleep paralysis, and in disicciative states associated with meditation.

David B

RidingtheScree · 02-04-2006, 01:37 PM

oh, about smoke...

maybe your ear popped?

hehe.

But really if all your experience teaches you to at least try to be reasonable in cause and effect, why reject it for one occurance?

working from that, what is more logical:

that I was thinking of a subject deeply with some dread,

and it may be that I mistranslated a feeling into something beyond my experience, in my dread.

When I was young I used to think (sometimes still) that when I am alone in the house late at night, that I hear people outside, talking or walking though the halls inside. I used to even get a kitchen knife to hold.

In retrospect it still seems very real and tangible, but it has happened so many times without clues to its origin in different places and situations and ages that I know confindently that no such thing was happening. Merely my paranoia was manifesting itself by paranoid fear. Also, when I was more religious (age 12) I thought I saw signs every once in a while while I read the bible. Once after watching alien documentaries my mother screamed while she was sleeping and thought she saw an alien hovering over her, but my dad was next to her in Bed and she quickly dismissed it and laughes at it when I mention it.

Freud or someone notes that in the state between being awake and a sleep dreams can place themselves over the settings of the room and jolt you out of sleep thinking you've seen or felt something while you were just awaking. This has happened to me when I was younger when I used to sleep in class and wake suddenly thinking I saw something when really it was just people moving about.

The brain can be coaxed into seeing things.

Jobar · 02-04-2006, 03:44 PM

Oh, yes. Many of them.

As a young man, I was quite a head. I tried a wide variety of psychoactive drugs. I also read Leary, Wasson, Pirsig, Kesey, Hesse, Ellis, Watts, Castaneda, Campbell, Burroughs- on and on- not to mention hundreds of undergound comics. I sought out visions and peak experiences. And I found them aplenty.

Over time, I felt I needed to use mind-altering drugs less and less, because the *real* mystical experience was available without them. That experience is the recognition of the inextricable union of subject and object, of that and thou, which is the heart of all religious experience.

Strangely enough, even while I was doing all those drugs, I was pretty much an atheist- I put away belief in any god at age 15. But I never lost my sense of wonder, of awe at the vast and strange universe in which I lived and moved. And I still have it. The oddest things can suddenly make me feel intensely unified with my environment, and the wordless and breathless ecstasy which I recognize as being the same as that which mystics all down the ages have tried to write or speak about.

Like all those mystics before me, I tell you that those experiences are essentially wordless, as indescribeable as orgasm.

alphamale · 02-05-2006, 07:51 AM

After long time not phoning my eldest brother. Last week I felt very strong urge to call hime and apologize for not contacting him. As he always does he replied with a big heart accepting my apology and changing the subject to a possitive by joking.

2 days later he died. I feel so happy that I contacted him.

01-30-2006, 12:15 PM	#1
richard2 Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Nox Planet Posts: 438	Have you ever had a mystical experience? Hi, What was it like? If you're an atheist now, how do you explain what happened to you? Personally, I can remember one thing that happened to me as a Christian that -- well, I don't know if you'd call it "mystical experiences", but it was kinda strange. Once, when I was questioning my faith, I was thinking about the doctrine of original sin and eternal punishment. How could God justify sending us to hell? Before I read any theology or apologetics, I figured that Adam and Eve's turning away from God had an eternal and infinite effect on the Creator. While I was thinking about this, it felt like someone blew smoke into my ear, and it felt like the smoke encapsulated my brain. Being a Christian, I interpreted this 'smoke' as the Holy Spirit. It was weird. I still don't know how to explain it. Anyone else? richard

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-30-2006, 01:37 PM	#2
Astreja Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 2,946	Not counting the many interesting encounters I've had in meditations and dreams, here are two incidents that really stand out in my mind: 1. Once, when about to step off the curb, I collided with something invisible that broke my stride and caused me to hesitate for about half a second. And then a large truck ran the red light, right through the coordinates that I almost stepped into. 2. My ex-spouse threatened to kill my best friend and then commit suicide. A moment later, I heard a voice whisper in my left ear: "Get... out!" (I did. I left that very night and divorced the jerk.)

01-30-2006, 01:49 PM	#3
johno Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,549	I have seen the ramparts of heaven, ablaze, golden in the firmament of heaven. At least that's what they looked like. Strangely I never believed that I was experiencing anything other than an hallucination. A couple of days later I went to the library and discovered exercise-induced migraine. Fortification spectra are symptoms of migraine. I saw the vision after a desperately over-the-top workout at the gym---What's the point of going to the gym if you don't intend to die there? So what did I see? As a scientist I had taken some courses in physiology, enough to seek a materialistic cause for what I had experienced. Had I been mystically inclined I could have made a career out of a well-understood idiosyncracy of my physiology, but God never came into it. It was an amazing spectacle for all that, and it went a long way towards convincing me that some of the visionaries have honestly described their subjective experiences but were too besotted with religion and too ignorant of physiology to be willing to or able to account for them in materialistic terms. johno

02-04-2006, 11:55 AM	#5
richard2 Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Nox Planet Posts: 438	Do you think it was a hallucination? My experience causes me to doubt a lot about my rejecting Christianity, but, then again, I have what I think are good reasons to reject it. I don't know what's true anymore.

02-04-2006, 01:29 PM	#6
RidingtheScree Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts, United States of America Posts: 583	dreams can be vivid, I've had some that seem somewhat prophetic upon waking but which in retrospect are mere image renderings (usually very simple and obvious) of thoughts about myself. One in particular I enjoyed and thought was very on par with self-observation. It was very scary and cool, like a horror movie. But it was very simple and powerful. The brain is a good entertainer, and helps you along in your endevors.

02-04-2006, 01:35 PM	#7
David B Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 11,620	I've had things I've interpreted as mystical experiences at the time. But which now I interpret naturalistically, as experiences during sleep paralysis, and in disicciative states associated with meditation. David B

02-04-2006, 01:37 PM	#8
RidingtheScree Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts, United States of America Posts: 583	oh, about smoke... maybe your ear popped? hehe. But really if all your experience teaches you to at least try to be reasonable in cause and effect, why reject it for one occurance? working from that, what is more logical: that I was thinking of a subject deeply with some dread, and it may be that I mistranslated a feeling into something beyond my experience, in my dread. When I was young I used to think (sometimes still) that when I am alone in the house late at night, that I hear people outside, talking or walking though the halls inside. I used to even get a kitchen knife to hold. In retrospect it still seems very real and tangible, but it has happened so many times without clues to its origin in different places and situations and ages that I know confindently that no such thing was happening. Merely my paranoia was manifesting itself by paranoid fear. Also, when I was more religious (age 12) I thought I saw signs every once in a while while I read the bible. Once after watching alien documentaries my mother screamed while she was sleeping and thought she saw an alien hovering over her, but my dad was next to her in Bed and she quickly dismissed it and laughes at it when I mention it. Freud or someone notes that in the state between being awake and a sleep dreams can place themselves over the settings of the room and jolt you out of sleep thinking you've seen or felt something while you were just awaking. This has happened to me when I was younger when I used to sleep in class and wake suddenly thinking I saw something when really it was just people moving about. The brain can be coaxed into seeing things.

02-04-2006, 03:44 PM	#9
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Oh, yes. Many of them. As a young man, I was quite a head. I tried a wide variety of psychoactive drugs. I also read Leary, Wasson, Pirsig, Kesey, Hesse, Ellis, Watts, Castaneda, Campbell, Burroughs- on and on- not to mention hundreds of undergound comics. I sought out visions and peak experiences. And I found them aplenty. Over time, I felt I needed to use mind-altering drugs less and less, because the real mystical experience was available without them. That experience is the recognition of the inextricable union of subject and object, of that and thou, which is the heart of all religious experience. Strangely enough, even while I was doing all those drugs, I was pretty much an atheist- I put away belief in any god at age 15. But I never lost my sense of wonder, of awe at the vast and strange universe in which I lived and moved. And I still have it. The oddest things can suddenly make me feel intensely unified with my environment, and the wordless and breathless ecstasy which I recognize as being the same as that which mystics all down the ages have tried to write or speak about. Like all those mystics before me, I tell you that those experiences are essentially wordless, as indescribeable as orgasm.

02-05-2006, 07:51 AM	#10
alphamale Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Saudi Arabia Posts: 76	After long time not phoning my eldest brother. Last week I felt very strong urge to call hime and apologize for not contacting him. As he always does he replied with a big heart accepting my apology and changing the subject to a possitive by joking. 2 days later he died. I feel so happy that I contacted him.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.