Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Julian · 12-20-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some christian

When the Christ-child was born "there were in the same country shepherds ABIDING in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:8). This never could have occurred in Judaea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them not later than October 15, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed that date. Notice that the Bible itself proves, in Song of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season not permitting shepherds to abide in open fields at night.

"It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the FIRST RAIN," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.)

Continuing, this authority states: "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As...the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in OCTOBER), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole SUMMER. And, as these shepherds had not YET brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields BY NIGHT. On this very ground, the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a CHRONOLOGICAL FACT...See the quotations from the Talmudists in Lightfoot."

Any encyclopedia, or any other authority, will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25. The Catholic Encyclopedia frankly states this fact.

from here: http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/ptofxmas.htm

Julian

JEST2ASK · 12-20-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

from here: http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/ptofxmas.htm

Julian

THE REAL ORIGIN OF CHRISTMAS

But if we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin?

It is a chief custom of the corrupt system denounced all through Bible prophecies and teachings under the name of Babylon. And it started and originated in the original Babylon of ancient Nimrod! Yes, it stems from roots whose beginning was shortly this side of the Flood!

Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of Noah, was the real founder of the Babylonish system that has gripped the world ever since - this system of organized competition - of man-ruled governments and empires, based upon the competitive and profit-making economic system. Nimrod built the tower of Babel, the original Babylon, ancient Nineveh, and many other cities. He organized the world's first kingdom. The name "Nimrod," in Hebrew is derived from "Marad," meaning "he rebelled."

It statrted so well then ends up with

Quote:

WE'RE IN BABYLON, AND HAVEN'T KNOWN IT

Christmas has become a commercial season. It's sponsored, kept alive, by the heaviest retail advertising campaigns of the year. You see a masqueraded "Santa Claus" in many stores. Ads keep us deluded and deceived about the "beautify Christmas spirit." The newspaper, who sell the ads, print flowery editorials exalting and eulogizing the pagan season, and its "spirit." A gullible people has become so inoculated, many take offense when told the truth. But the "Christmas spirit" is created each year, not to honor Christ, but to sell merchandise. Like all Satan's delusions, it appears as an "angel of light," is made to appear good. Billions of dollars are spent in this merchandising spree every year, while the cause of Christ must suffer. It's part of the economic system of Babylon.

We have professed to be Christian nations, but we're in Babylon, as Bible prophecy foretold, and we don't know it. "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" - now soon to fall - is the warning of Revelation 18:4.

This year, instead of gift trading, why not put that money into God's Work?

Julian · 12-20-2005, 01:09 PM

I figured that a link by a serious christian would be the best weapon in this case. Just ignore the christian outbursts and realize that he has a valid point in the seciton I quoted.

Julian

Vagus · 12-20-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaredM

I recall reading somewhere that Jesus may have been born in late summer. If I can find a source I will post a link.

--Jared

Jesus is Australian?

Huon · 12-20-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutral

Hi Mr. Orthodox freethinker
I don’t know if you know this or not but Christians in Egypt celebrate Christmas on January 7 not Dec 25!

I would say that the difference comes from the calendar, Julian or Gregorian.

The Bolshevik revolution of October 25 happened on November 7. Same difference, probably same origin.

And perhaps JC was an Egyptian bolshevik....

hclincha · 12-20-2005, 01:36 PM

Reminds me of a Christmas commentary I gave my wife the other day: Imagine if Christianity had originated in the Southern Hemisphere, we'd be celebrating Christmas in the summer

JEST2ASK · 12-20-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

I figured that a link by a serious christian would be the best weapon in this case. Just ignore the christian outbursts and realize that he has a valid point in the seciton I quoted.

Julian

Good point and that part is quite good ... but it was such a sudden switch it caught me unprepared , I felt like a deer just walking along the next thing I know I am in the middle of a freeway at rush hour

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-20-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firebird

The sun is reborn at the end of the winter solstice dec.25th

What better day for the Son of God, 'the light of the world', to be born?

King Rat · 12-20-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

What better day for the Son of God, 'the light of the world', to be born?

I thought that title belonged to lucifer.

Light-bearer, morning-star, bringer of the dawn, heilel ben-shachar, and other comic-book-superhero names.

12-20-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hclincha

Reminds me of a Christmas commentary I gave my wife the other day: Imagine if Christianity had originated in the Southern Hemisphere, we'd be celebrating Christmas in the summer

Whaddaya mean, imagine? Just come here & do it.

How weird is Xmas when you can't go to the beach, have a BBQ, eat fabulous cold seafood platters, pig out on cherries and mangos and send the kids outside to have a post lunch waterfight in their bathers while you have a nap?

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12-20-2005, 01:09 PM	#13
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	I figured that a link by a serious christian would be the best weapon in this case. Just ignore the christian outbursts and realize that he has a valid point in the seciton I quoted. Julian

12-20-2005, 01:36 PM	#16
hclincha Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norway, the last outpost of the civilized world Posts: 3,414	Reminds me of a Christmas commentary I gave my wife the other day: Imagine if Christianity had originated in the Southern Hemisphere, we'd be celebrating Christmas in the summer

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