Freethought & Rationalism Archive

robto · 02-24-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

The god of vegetation is in IE mythologies usually a son of thundergod. He is abducted by the underworld god immediately after the birth, but returns to the upper world when the wheat sprouts. He marries his own sister at the time of harvest. Then he is killed by the thunderbolts. Atfer that he is in the underground (stores) till the next birth when he again shortly goes above in the sowing time. He actually follows the wheat cycle throughout the year.

Could you give examples of IE mythologies clearly fitting this pattern ?

Thanks.

Andrew Criddle

I'm not sure what IE means here, but in my knowledge of ancient Near Eastern mythology, it is the storm god himself who descends to the underworld (e.g. Baal, Telepinu). The other elements mentioned by ph2ter don't seem to be a part of these myths.

ph2ter · 02-25-2009, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robto

I'm not sure what IE means here, but in my knowledge of ancient Near Eastern mythology, it is the storm god himself who descends to the underworld (e.g. Baal, Telepinu). The other elements mentioned by ph2ter don't seem to be a part of these myths.

IE means Indo-European.
Telepinus is Hittite god of farming and fertility. Hittite storm god is Tarhun (Teshub is his Hurrian counterpart). Hittites belong to the Indo-European group. Baal is not Indo-European god.
So, your objections don't count.

Clivedurdle · 02-27-2009, 02:09 PM

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=169542

Quote:

According to the ancient historiographers72 Caesar’s funeral proceeded on March 17, on
the day of the Liberalia, the festival of Libera (Kore), daughter of Ceres (Demeter), but
also the festival of Liber Pater, an early syncretistic variant of Bacchus (Dionysus).

On this day old women handed out wafers to the populus, and wine was also consumed, as
still today during the Christian Eucharist, especially on Easter. Like Easter the Liberalia
were a celebration of both the resurrection of nature in spring and of fertility:

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=247920

Quote:

I reopened this thread to note the very real possibility that some Roman pictures may actually be of dinosaurs.

My point is not about direct causation, but how when we see something strange we interpret it according to our pre existing ideas.

We may never be able to tease out direct causes, but the problem is that our minds take this, add in that and come up with saviours of the universe godmen!

I know it is not neat and tidy but if the starting point is extremely messy that should be clearly acknowledged, and scepticism should be shown towards those who positively assert a real Jesus as a basis for all this when all the evidence of how our minds work and how societies change points in a completely different direction.

Clivedurdle · 02-27-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

The story of Zeus and his father, Cronus, is worthy of some in-depth consideration.
In Greek Mythology, Cronus was considered to be the son of heaven (Uranus) and earth (Gaia). Cronus’ son, Zeus, was known to the ancient Greeks as the King of the Gods, while Cronus was generally considered to be an even more ancient, pre-Hellenic deity, and thus someone seldom worshipped by the ancient Greeks.
Cronus’ father, Uranus, meanwhile, had had many children by his mate, Gaia, but the story goes that Uranus hid them in the Earth. Gaia, as might be expected, mourned for her lost children, but she also sought revenge. [It’s a female thing.] As it turned out, Cronus was the only one of her children willing to risk everything in going up against Uranus. Aided with a harpe, supplied by Gaia, Cronus was able to castrate Uranus -- an act generally interpreted as an event separating heaven from earth.
Cronus then became the Lord of his brothers, and, according to myth, shut up the most dangerous of them in Tartarus. He then took for consort his sister, Rhea. But when he was warned by his parents that his own child would likely overthrow him, he swallowed the first five of Rhea’s offspring -- Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, and Poseidon. That is to say, he took all their powers and presence and eclipsed them.
With the sixth child, however, Rhea tricked Cronus and gave him a stone to swallow, which he promptly did. [It was not specified as to whether it was a gall or a kidney stone, but Cronus must have been really stoned when he swallowed it, or wouldn’t he have at least noticed?] When the sixth child, Zeus, came of age, he loosed the prisoners of Tartarus, made war on Cronus, and won! In the process, his siblings were freed. Yea.
Because of his dietary inclinations, Cronus was frequently identified with the Semitic baalim and Moloch, to whom human sacrifices, particularly of children, were made. In other words, he was not a nice god. This fact might be considered to be relevant. I.e., a god of wrath and vengeance, perhaps?
The stories of Uranus, Cronus, and Zeus (and the rest of the mythologic gang) are the Greek versions, and thus stem from the time frame of the ancient Greeks. In their frame of reference, therefore, Zeus was the current and ruling head, while Cronus was history (in every sense of the word) and Uranus was ancient history (literally!). This is important if one is to consider any connection between the Greek mythology and the far more ancient, Sumerian myths -- the latter including the various members of the Anunnaki, the cadre of Gods and Goddesses.
Uranus, the planet, can, for example, be clearly associated with the Sumerian god, Anu (aka heaven), the father of Enki and Enlil. Anu/Uranus was the head honcho of Nibiru, the so-called Twelfth Planet. It might be noted that Anu spent little time on the outpost Earth -- but more than say King George did of the American colonies. (Curiously enough, there’s a lot of similarities between the two.) In fact, the act of separating heaven (Anu/Nibiru) from Earth, may be analogous to the American Revolution, where the upstart colonies became independent of England (but where the tie that binds was never completely, irrevocably broken in either case).
But if Uranus identifies with Anu, then the question becomes as to which of the Sumerian gods does Cronus compare? The most likely answer appears to be Enlil, who was the head of the Anunnaki council on Earth (the Sumerian version), and thus “the Lord of his brothers”. Enlil was also not above incorporating (the act of swallowing) as his own the powers of his children -- or for that matter anyone of the same or next generation.
Similarly, by this logic, Gaia becomes either the Sumerian Antu or Ki. Antu was the Great Mother Sky goddess, while Ki was considered to be the Sumerian earth goddess, and thus the more logical choice -- depending upon the scholar doing the interpretation of the ancient texts -- for the mother of Enlil. Rhea is probably equivalent to Ninki, the half sister of Enki (and possibly Enlil). Thus Gaia/Ki helps her son, Enlil/Cronus to overthrow Anu/Uranus. Ki may have had a thing about earth at some point, and could have been jealous of Antu (with both Anu and Antu being sky types).
Meanwhile, Rhea/Ninki takes part in the overthrow of Enlil/Cronus, and probably due in part to Ninki’s horror at Enlil’s actions in allowing humanity (her creation) to drown in the Great Flood and Deluge! Ninki may also have been willing to take Enki’s side in the Enki and Enlil rivalry because of Enki’s saving of Ziusudra/Noah and his family.
The overthrow of Cronus/Enlil seems to have been done by Marduk, the eldest son of Enki, who became the Babylonian God, circa 2000 B.C.E.. The occasion was marked in part by the fact that Enlil’s son, Ninurta, had just committed the rather grave gaffe of atom bombing Sodom and Gomorrah into oblivion, and in the process causing the destruction of the Sumerian civilization by radioactive fallout. [And thus providing Ninki/Rhea one more reason for her to be upset with Enlil’s treatment of her human creations. As the Anunnaki like to say, “It’s not nice to fool mother Ninki!”]
According to the Sumerian chronicles, Enlil and the Anunnaki gods then flew away like birds abandoning a sinking ship. This was also, likely, the beginning of the Age of Aries -- which by Anunnaki tradition was to be associated with Marduk’s planet, Mars. Marduk is thus the equivalent of the Greek Zeus, even if Enlil was not his father (Enlil was his uncle -- but also the previous generation). [Enki was Marduk’s father.]

http://www.halexandria.org/dward377.htm

maryhelena · 03-12-2009, 12:49 PM

In considering all the various ancient myths that might have some relevance to the Christ myth, i.e. the dying and rising god mythology, there is one myth that, to my mind, is so often not fully explored. That is the Sumarian myth of the Decent of Innana. A myth that is possibly the oldest version of the dying and rising god mythology.

The interesting point in this myth is that the first dying and rising god is not a man - it is the goddess Innana. Only after she was killed, her corpse hung on a nail and her return to life, after three days and three nights in the underworld - does the myth evolve to include Dumuzi as the one to take her place in the underworld - for the six months of the year. Later, of course, with the Babylonian mythology of Tammuz, the emphasis, and the mythology, shifted wholesale, as it were, to the male feature of the myth - the human element of Dumuzi as opposed to the spiritual element of Inanna.

Below are a few verses taken from the mythology. Dumuzi is generally believed to be the shepherd king mentioned in the Sumerian King List.

Sumarian Mythology
Inanna's Descent Into the Netherworld
(Edited & Condensed Version 1.07)
by James W. Bell © 2004

The Anunnaki fastened on Inanna
The eye of death.
They spoke against her the word of wrath.
They uttered against her the cry of guilt.
They struck her.

Inanna was turned into a corpse,
A piece of rotting meat,
Hung from a hook on the wall.

When, after three days and three nights,
Inanna had not returned,
Ninshubur set up a lament for her by the ruins.

The corpse was given to them.
The kugarra sprinkled the food of life on the corpse.
The galatur sprinkled the water of life on the corpse.
Inanna arose.

Inanna was about to ascend
When the Annunaki, the judges of the Netherworld,
Seized her.

They said:
“No one ascends from the Netherworld unmarked.
If Inanna wishes to return from the Netherworld,
She must provide someone to take her place,
We will send the galla demons with her
To make sure she does."

In Kullab, under the big apple tree,
Dumuzi, the husband of Inanna,
Was dressed in his shining Me garments.
He sat on his magnificent throne.
He did not move.

Inanna fastened on Dumuzi
The eye of death.
She spoke against him
The word of wrath.
She uttered against him
The cry of guilt.
“Take him away!
Take Dumuzi away!”

“They came and found Dumuzi,
The galla have taken my brother away,
Down into the Netherworld
Where he is destined to remain forever
In your stead.”
When Inanna heard the words of Dumuzi’s sister
She wept at being the cause of her own loss.

Geshtinanna sought to comfort her.
“My Lady, let me take my brother’s place
For six months out of twelve,
So that, each spring, when they call for me
Your husband will be released.”

Inanna blessed the goodness of Geshtinanna,
She blessed Dumuzi's kind sister.

This is the story of how it happened
That Dumuzi came to be sentenced
To spend six months out of each year
Living below in the Netherworld.

ph2ter · 03-20-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

In considering all the various ancient myths that might have some relevance to the Christ myth, i.e. the dying and rising god mythology, there is one myth that, to my mind, is so often not fully explored. That is the Sumarian myth of the Decent of Innana. A myth that is possibly the oldest version of the dying and rising god mythology.

The interesting point in this myth is that the first dying and rising god is not a man - it is the goddess Innana. Only after she was killed, her corpse hung on a nail and her return to life, after three days and three nights in the underworld - does the myth evolve to include Dumuzi as the one to take her place in the underworld - for the six months of the year. Later, of course, with the Babylonian mythology of Tammuz, the emphasis, and the mythology, shifted wholesale, as it were, to the male feature of the myth - the human element of Dumuzi as opposed to the spiritual element of Inanna.

The spirit of vegetation has its male and female counterpart. There always are both of them, the god and the godess of vegetation. I do not think that any of these two can exist without the other. The male part is the one who dies to be reborn in the course of the year, and the female part is the one who in turn gives birth, loves, and destroys.
In the Eleusinian Mysteries the central point occupied the ritual of grinding the wheat with a mortar and pestle. The apparent sexual connotation which is present in that process is responsible for the fact that these two gods are the main acters in the sacred wedding. The grinding is in the same time the act of killing the grain in a mortar and also the act of procreation. The godess of vegetation kills the vegetation god and successively gives birth to him. She is in the same time his sister, his wife and his mother. Sometimes those three functions result with the split into two godesses, the mother and daughter. The same can be said for the god of vegetation, he is usually split into the father and son.

The ritual of sacrifice usually includes three stages. The first is the virgin sacrifice, the second is the unspeakable sacrifice and the third is the restitution of the killed victim. The killed virgin (and her mother) demands satisfaction which is successively fulfilled in the unspeakable sacrifice. The virgin actually represents the vegetation godess. She demands the life of her male counterpart, the vegetation god and kills him immediately after the wedding. His death gives birth. He must die to be reborn. After the sacrificied victim is in the myth broken into pieces by a wild boar or by a thunderbolt, which in a reality is represented by a blade (animal or human victim) or by a mortar/mill (herbal victim - the wheat). Some pieces of killed body are eaten in the form of cooked or baked meat and bread. The bones, the skin and the head are again put together and form the restitution and revitalization of the victim which is actually a god.

In the Eleusinian Mysteries the virgin sacrifice is represented with the killing of a young pig. Persephne is actually a pig which is killed in the first stage of the ritual of sacrifice. Now, it is clear why Tammuz, Adonis and Osiris are all killed by a wild boar (pig). That wild boar is actually the godess of vegetation. The rite at Eleusis also included the act of sexual union of a hierophant with the godess (Demeter/Persephone). This is analogue to the ritual of grinding the wheat with the mortar and pestle. A young boy was always present among the initiates. He probably represented the unspeakable sacrifice, the vegetation god (Triptolemos/Demophon, Ploutos, Iakhos/Dionysos) who was made immortal in a fire, which means that he was killed (probaly replaced with a sheep) and through the fire made immortal which is the third stage of the ritual - restitution.

The myth of Inanna essentially complies with the above picture.

maryhelena · 03-20-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

In considering all the various ancient myths that might have some relevance to the Christ myth, i.e. the dying and rising god mythology, there is one myth that, to my mind, is so often not fully explored. That is the Sumarian myth of the Decent of Innana. A myth that is possibly the oldest version of the dying and rising god mythology.

The interesting point in this myth is that the first dying and rising god is not a man - it is the goddess Innana. Only after she was killed, her corpse hung on a nail and her return to life, after three days and three nights in the underworld - does the myth evolve to include Dumuzi as the one to take her place in the underworld - for the six months of the year. Later, of course, with the Babylonian mythology of Tammuz, the emphasis, and the mythology, shifted wholesale, as it were, to the male feature of the myth - the human element of Dumuzi as opposed to the spiritual element of Inanna.

The spirit of vegetation has its male and female counterpart. There always are both of them, the god and the godess of vegetation. I do not think that any of these two can exist without the other. The male part is the one who dies to be reborn in the course of the year, and the female part is the one who in turn gives birth, loves, and destroys.
In the Eleusinian Mysteries the central point occupied the ritual of grinding the wheat with a mortar and pestle. The apparent sexual connotation which is present in that process is responsible for the fact that these two gods are the main acters in the sacred wedding. The grinding is in the same time the act of killing the grain in a mortar and also the act of procreation. The godess of vegetation kills the vegetation god and successively gives birth to him. She is in the same time his sister, his wife and his mother. Sometimes those three functions result with the split into two godesses, the mother and daughter. The same can be said for the god of vegetation, he is usually split into the father and son.

The ritual of sacrifice usually includes three stages. The first is the virgin sacrifice, the second is the unspeakable sacrifice and the third is the restitution of the killed victim. The killed virgin (and her mother) demands satisfaction which is successively fulfilled in the unspeakable sacrifice. The virgin actually represents the vegetation godess. She demands the life of her male counterpart, the vegetation god and kills him immediately after the wedding. His death gives birth. He must die to be reborn. After the sacrificied victim is in the myth broken into pieces by a wild boar or by a thunderbolt, which in a reality is represented by a blade (animal or human victim) or by a mortar/mill (herbal victim - the wheat). Some pieces of killed body are eaten in the form of cooked or baked meat and bread. The bones, the skin and the head are again put together and form the restitution and revitalization of the victim which is actually a god.

In the Eleusinian Mysteries the virgin sacrifice is represented with the killing of a young pig. Persephne is actually a pig which is killed in the first stage of the ritual of sacrifice. Now, it is clear why Tammuz, Adonis and Osiris are all killed by a wild boar (pig). That wild boar is actually the godess of vegetation. The rite at Eleusis also included the act of sexual union of a hierophant with the godess (Demeter/Persephone). This is analogue to the ritual of grinding the wheat with the mortar and pestle. A young boy was always present among the initiates. He probably represented the unspeakable sacrifice, the vegetation god (Triptolemos/Demophon, Ploutos, Iakhos/Dionysos) who was made immortal in a fire, which means that he was killed (probaly replaced with a sheep) and through the fire made immortal which is the third stage of the ritual - restitution.

The myth of Inanna essentially complies with the above picture.

Thanks for that post

I'll keep it on file.....

ph2ter · 03-26-2009, 06:46 AM

I will continue with another parallel between Christianity and pagan mysteries, this time regarding Mithraism.

The empty tomb is a 'detail' not mentioned by Paul, but description of a tomb in which Jesus was laid can be found in all 4 Gospel accounts.
Mark specifies that the tomb of Jesus had been 'hewn out of the rock'. Mathew slightly changed that and says that it had been 'hewn in the rock'. Luke only mentions 'a rock hewn tomb', while John says only that it was in the garden. All 4 evangelists mention also the stone which was rolled against the door of the tomb.
The tomb described suggest a connection with the cave in which Mitras was born out of the rock. The symbolism of cavitiy is clear because it represents a womb.

Luke and John introduce two characters standing or sitting where the body of Jesus had been. John specifies "one at the head and one at the feet". In most cases the two torch-bearers attend Mithras's birth. Cautes (Sunrise) holds a burning torch aloft, whereas Cautopates (Sunset) holds a burning torch on the floor. Some picture representations show Sunset preceding Sunrise suggesting a rebirth cult.
Mark mentions only a young man sitting on the right side dressed in a white robe. This can be a hint connected with the youth who left the linen cloth and ran away naked when Jesus was arrested. Linen cloth and nakedness are usual part of the ritual of initiation into the secret mysteries. That is true for Mythraism and also for the Greek secret mysteries like the one in Eleusis. Iniciants were lying on the bull's (sheep's) skin. The skin belonged to the leftovers of the sacrificed animal. It symbolizes the restitution and revitalization of the sacrificed animal which is actually the god himself.

Mithras completes his stay on earth by banqueting the flesh of the bull. The meal takes place in a cave. It is assumed that the bull's flesh was consumed and its blood drunk. But maybe only symbolically, because it can be deduced from the picture representations that in the ritual bread was used as a substitute for meat, and wine for blood. This is exactly what Justin mentioned. He was careful not to mention wine, although there is certain evidence for the use of wine. Some have concluded that the bull was Mithras who had offered himself as sacrifice, and that the believers then consumed the divine body and drank his blood as in the Dionysiac mysteries, although the definite evidence does not exist yet. Also Tertullian confirms that the meal in the Mithras cult was a 'devilish imitation of the Eucharist'.

According to Tertullian the initiates of Mithras enacted the resurrection as well. This can be confirmed with the representations in which Mithras have been carried up into the heavens in a chariot.
Similarly, at his birth Mithras rises from the living rock wearing a cloak and a radiate crown. Red flames shoot out all around him from the petra genetrix. Mithras's birth was sometimes connected with a spring, a source of life-giving water and immortality. The scene is connected with the striking of the rock in which Mithras is shown seated and aiming his arrow at the rock face, before which a figure kneels. The scene is probably connected with his birth out of the rock and is parallel with the bull slaying. Similarly, Dionysus' mother Semele was made pregnant by Zeus when he took the form of a lightning bolt, which is actually the stone arrow.

In the birth scene his both arms are raised holding a torch or sometimes a bundle of wheat in the left hand and a dagger in the right. A bundle of wheat also sometimes grows from the tail of the slayed bull, which also points to the identification of the bull with Mithras. He is born fully potent and capable of controlling the universe like the kosmokrator. His birth and his ascension fuse in a single and identical event. From the cave he is born and in the cave the bull is slayed and the sacred meal prepared.

The crucifixion, the Eucharist and the resurrection of Jesus is practically identical.
The Eucharist repeats the resurrection and in the begining it was sometimes performed underground in the subterranean cemeteries (Christian meetings in catacombs). Christians were not doing that for the reason of hiding, as is usual explanation, but rather they were only repeating the scene of the resurrection inside the tomb hewn in the rock.

andrewcriddle · 03-26-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

The crucifixion, the Eucharist and the resurrection of Jesus is practically identical.
The Eucharist repeats the resurrection and in the begining it was sometimes performed underground in the subterranean cemeteries (Christian meetings in catacombs). Christians were not doing that for the reason of hiding, as is usual explanation, but rather they were only repeating the scene of the resurrection inside the tomb hewn in the rock.

It is unlikely that the use of catacombs by Christians goes back before the late 2nd century CE.

Andrew Criddle

ph2ter · 03-27-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph2ter

The crucifixion, the Eucharist and the resurrection of Jesus is practically identical.
The Eucharist repeats the resurrection and in the begining it was sometimes performed underground in the subterranean cemeteries (Christian meetings in catacombs). Christians were not doing that for the reason of hiding, as is usual explanation, but rather they were only repeating the scene of the resurrection inside the tomb hewn in the rock.

It is unlikely that the use of catacombs by Christians goes back before the late 2nd century CE.

Andrew Criddle

But also it is unlikely that the use of the Gospels goes back before 2nd century CE. The empty tomb is unknown to the 1st century Christians.

It would be interesting to research when the accusations that Christians used to congregate at the cemeteries, inside the catacombs or caves first appeared or is archeologically attested.

03-12-2009, 12:49 PM	#15
maryhelena Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,527	Inanna's Descent Into the Netherworld In considering all the various ancient myths that might have some relevance to the Christ myth, i.e. the dying and rising god mythology, there is one myth that, to my mind, is so often not fully explored. That is the Sumarian myth of the Decent of Innana. A myth that is possibly the oldest version of the dying and rising god mythology. The interesting point in this myth is that the first dying and rising god is not a man - it is the goddess Innana. Only after she was killed, her corpse hung on a nail and her return to life, after three days and three nights in the underworld - does the myth evolve to include Dumuzi as the one to take her place in the underworld - for the six months of the year. Later, of course, with the Babylonian mythology of Tammuz, the emphasis, and the mythology, shifted wholesale, as it were, to the male feature of the myth - the human element of Dumuzi as opposed to the spiritual element of Inanna. Below are a few verses taken from the mythology. Dumuzi is generally believed to be the shepherd king mentioned in the Sumerian King List. Sumarian Mythology Inanna's Descent Into the Netherworld (Edited & Condensed Version 1.07) by James W. Bell © 2004 The Anunnaki fastened on Inanna The eye of death. They spoke against her the word of wrath. They uttered against her the cry of guilt. They struck her. Inanna was turned into a corpse, A piece of rotting meat, Hung from a hook on the wall. When, after three days and three nights, Inanna had not returned, Ninshubur set up a lament for her by the ruins. The corpse was given to them. The kugarra sprinkled the food of life on the corpse. The galatur sprinkled the water of life on the corpse. Inanna arose. Inanna was about to ascend When the Annunaki, the judges of the Netherworld, Seized her. They said: “No one ascends from the Netherworld unmarked. If Inanna wishes to return from the Netherworld, She must provide someone to take her place, We will send the galla demons with her To make sure she does." In Kullab, under the big apple tree, Dumuzi, the husband of Inanna, Was dressed in his shining Me garments. He sat on his magnificent throne. He did not move. Inanna fastened on Dumuzi The eye of death. She spoke against him The word of wrath. She uttered against him The cry of guilt. “Take him away! Take Dumuzi away!” “They came and found Dumuzi, The galla have taken my brother away, Down into the Netherworld Where he is destined to remain forever In your stead.” When Inanna heard the words of Dumuzi’s sister She wept at being the cause of her own loss. Geshtinanna sought to comfort her. “My Lady, let me take my brother’s place For six months out of twelve, So that, each spring, when they call for me Your husband will be released.” Inanna blessed the goodness of Geshtinanna, She blessed Dumuzi's kind sister. This is the story of how it happened That Dumuzi came to be sentenced To spend six months out of each year Living below in the Netherworld.

03-26-2009, 06:46 AM	#18
ph2ter Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 219	A rock hewn tomb I will continue with another parallel between Christianity and pagan mysteries, this time regarding Mithraism. The empty tomb is a 'detail' not mentioned by Paul, but description of a tomb in which Jesus was laid can be found in all 4 Gospel accounts. Mark specifies that the tomb of Jesus had been 'hewn out of the rock'. Mathew slightly changed that and says that it had been 'hewn in the rock'. Luke only mentions 'a rock hewn tomb', while John says only that it was in the garden. All 4 evangelists mention also the stone which was rolled against the door of the tomb. The tomb described suggest a connection with the cave in which Mitras was born out of the rock. The symbolism of cavitiy is clear because it represents a womb. Luke and John introduce two characters standing or sitting where the body of Jesus had been. John specifies "one at the head and one at the feet". In most cases the two torch-bearers attend Mithras's birth. Cautes (Sunrise) holds a burning torch aloft, whereas Cautopates (Sunset) holds a burning torch on the floor. Some picture representations show Sunset preceding Sunrise suggesting a rebirth cult. Mark mentions only a young man sitting on the right side dressed in a white robe. This can be a hint connected with the youth who left the linen cloth and ran away naked when Jesus was arrested. Linen cloth and nakedness are usual part of the ritual of initiation into the secret mysteries. That is true for Mythraism and also for the Greek secret mysteries like the one in Eleusis. Iniciants were lying on the bull's (sheep's) skin. The skin belonged to the leftovers of the sacrificed animal. It symbolizes the restitution and revitalization of the sacrificed animal which is actually the god himself. Mithras completes his stay on earth by banqueting the flesh of the bull. The meal takes place in a cave. It is assumed that the bull's flesh was consumed and its blood drunk. But maybe only symbolically, because it can be deduced from the picture representations that in the ritual bread was used as a substitute for meat, and wine for blood. This is exactly what Justin mentioned. He was careful not to mention wine, although there is certain evidence for the use of wine. Some have concluded that the bull was Mithras who had offered himself as sacrifice, and that the believers then consumed the divine body and drank his blood as in the Dionysiac mysteries, although the definite evidence does not exist yet. Also Tertullian confirms that the meal in the Mithras cult was a 'devilish imitation of the Eucharist'. According to Tertullian the initiates of Mithras enacted the resurrection as well. This can be confirmed with the representations in which Mithras have been carried up into the heavens in a chariot. Similarly, at his birth Mithras rises from the living rock wearing a cloak and a radiate crown. Red flames shoot out all around him from the petra genetrix. Mithras's birth was sometimes connected with a spring, a source of life-giving water and immortality. The scene is connected with the striking of the rock in which Mithras is shown seated and aiming his arrow at the rock face, before which a figure kneels. The scene is probably connected with his birth out of the rock and is parallel with the bull slaying. Similarly, Dionysus' mother Semele was made pregnant by Zeus when he took the form of a lightning bolt, which is actually the stone arrow. In the birth scene his both arms are raised holding a torch or sometimes a bundle of wheat in the left hand and a dagger in the right. A bundle of wheat also sometimes grows from the tail of the slayed bull, which also points to the identification of the bull with Mithras. He is born fully potent and capable of controlling the universe like the kosmokrator. His birth and his ascension fuse in a single and identical event. From the cave he is born and in the cave the bull is slayed and the sacred meal prepared. The crucifixion, the Eucharist and the resurrection of Jesus is practically identical. The Eucharist repeats the resurrection and in the begining it was sometimes performed underground in the subterranean cemeteries (Christian meetings in catacombs). Christians were not doing that for the reason of hiding, as is usual explanation, but rather they were only repeating the scene of the resurrection inside the tomb hewn in the rock.

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