Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aeebee50 · 02-28-2012, 05:42 AM

Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

Chili · 02-28-2012, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

Was he not the one who said: "Know yourself and do what you want"?

Sounds liike a saint to me.

andrewcriddle · 02-28-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

Was he not the one who said: "Know yourself and do what you want"?

Sounds liike a saint to me.

Love and do what you will. "Dilige et quod vis fac."

Andrew Criddle

Toto · 02-28-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

...

In this case I find the statement in a book from 1920, not as a quotation but as a description of the position of Celsus: Ernest Leigh-Bennet, Handbook of the early Christian Fathers, 1920, p.111.

Quote:

He (Celsus) first contended that Christianity was repudiated by Judaism, of which it was an offshoot; next, that it was a revolutionary system, based on incredible legends ; a religion of threats and bribes, unworthy of good or wise men.

I imagine that Bushby got it via several intermediaries, in the course of which authorship had been transferred, and the statement made into a quote. If anyone has Bushby's book, could they verify that he didn't give a reference for his claim? (They never do, but we should check).

All the best,

Roger Pearse
PS: I wasn't able to see more than a snippet from Leigh-Bennet - can US readers see the whole book?

I can't see the relevant pages from Leigh-Bennet.

Bushby' Bible Fraud (or via: amazon.co.uk) is reviewed by a Christian here. Bushby is a metaphysically oriented Australian conspiracy theorist. (I am so glad he is not an atheist.)

Quote:

The main premise of The Bible Fraud is the allegation that "the Jesus of the Gospels" was actually based on the lives of royal twins, Rabbi Jesus and Judas Khrestus.

During my first leisurely read-through of The Bible Fraud, I immediately began to notice some serious errors but offered Bushby the benefit of the doubt in believing he may have simply cited other authors who previously presented erroneous material. However, once I began to investigate his claims, I was left to conclude his many errors were no accident. Unfortunately for us wishing to investigate Bushby's claims, we are told many of his sources are "preserved in rare archival manuscripts and difficult-to-find ancient reference books." On several occasions, he makes vague references to phantom evidence such as "ancient documents" or "inscriptions" without offering the name or location of such evidence. ..

The reviewer actually tried to track down some documents and quotes, but not this particular quote. Bushby's track record is not good.

Chili · 02-28-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

Was he not the one who said: "Know yourself and do what you want"?

Sounds liike a saint to me.

Love and do what you will. "Dilige et quod vis fac."

Andrew Criddle

Thank you and sorry about the warp. It is a very nice expression in the freedom of love to be sensored by natural law only. This would be without desire (tanha) with all the senses pierced and obviously crucified.

Chili · 02-28-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

[indent]Toward the end of his life, St. Augustine confessed that Christianity
was ‘a religion of threats and bribes unworthy of wise men’.

What Augustine pretended was Christianity was so far opposed to Christianity that this statement, authentic or not, was understatement, perhaps made in order to outflank more penetrating criticism.

In what way?

'Unworthy of wise men' is some sort of joke. These were no more wise men than they were spaghetti monsters.

Monsters, yes, yes.

Revised standard version:

'Papalism is a religion of threats and bribes worthy of monsters.’ Augustine

It indeed takes courage as Catholic to say that Christianity is a relgion of 'monsters,' did you say?

What he means is that that Catholics are not Christian as Catholic, and once a Catholic becomes Christian he is no longer a Catholic, much in the same as Joseph was Jew who was no longer a Jew when Jesus died to his sin and so Joseph became a 'Christian. So after that transition stage Joseph was Saint (and not as upright sinner for sure), and we declared him Patron Saint of the Family for that.

So then you will finally know why it was Joseph who happen to have this cavity in his own place (vacant TOL) that they buried this 'second Adam' in, dead now for sure, and there to stay in memory of old.

aeebee50 · 02-29-2012, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

Was he not the one who said: "Know yourself and do what you want"?

Sounds liike a saint to me.

Maybe Dr. John Canady, MD has something close to that. 101 Tips to Getting the Residency you Want (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Chili · 02-29-2012, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

Was he not the one who said: "Know yourself and do what you want"?

Sounds like a saint to me.

Maybe Dr. John Canady, MD has something close to that. http://www.amazon.com/101-Tips-Getti.../dp/1587296829

Yes life is a journey and once you have reached the end it is easy to see how you got there. Until then life is a maze in all directions wherein only your intergity is what keeps you tall as homosapien, and here now your highly esteemed Doctor in Medicine wrote a book to teach us how to crawl!

Is that not an insult to the collective American soul? . . . to have it banned from publication and him branded as a traitor?

mountainman · 02-29-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Bushby is a metaphysically oriented Australian conspiracy theorist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIKI

A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

Is the history of "Early Christian origins" known to the public?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIKI

Proven conspiracies and conspiracy theories

Katherine K. Young states "(t)he fact remains, however, that not all conspiracies are imagined by paranoids. Historians show that every real conspiracy has had at least four characteristic features:

1) groups, not isolated individuals;

2) illegal or sinister aims, not ones that would benefit society as a whole;

3) orchestrated acts, not a series of spontaneous and haphazard ones;

4) and secret planning, not public discussion."[39]

"Some historians have put forward the idea that more recently the United States has become the home of conspiracy theories because so many high-level prominent conspiracies have been undertaken and uncovered since the 1960s." [40]The existence of such real conspiracies helps feed the belief in conspiracy theories

I have numbered and formatted the above in case anyone wishes to make a comment.

Quote:

(I am so glad he is not an atheist.)

(Why would that be?)

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02-28-2012, 05:42 AM	#11
aeebee50 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 5,810	Augustine was too political and in with the good old boys.

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