Diogenes the Cynic

Was Jesus speaking metaphorically when he said this?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(Matthew 24:28).

Are the stars literally going to "fall" from the sky? Revelation 8 says that a star called wormwood will fall to the earth? Is that literally true? Will a star land on the earth? Will it be a really tiny star?

Also, why doesn't the space shuttle bump into the firmament over the earth?

Godless Dave

That's not even a fulfilled prophecy. Crucifxion did not normally involve piercing the hands and feet. Even if you find a gospel that says Jesus's hands and feet were pierced, all it proves is that the Gospel author had read Psalm 22:16. Hardly miraculous; Jesus's early followers were Jewish.

Johnny Skeptic

Well of course. The same goes for Joseph of Arimathea and Micah 5:2, which Matthew used to claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Not only is there no evidence that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but Jesus did not become ruler in Israel like the prophecy predicted. I suggest that Jenn 6162 open a thread on another prophecy before he embarrasses himself any further. What about it, Jenn?

buckshot23

Are you saying he wasn't crucified?

Weltall

No, I think he's saying that it's not a prophecy because Jesus wouldn't have been crucified that way. There's a reason the nails went through the wrists and not the hands you know and it's been discussed ad nauseum already.

Jenn6162

No, I don't believe Jesus was speaking metaphorically. I believe that the Matthew 24 passage may be describing some kind of nuclear explosion(s). I do believe the stars will fall. The particular star described by John, wormwood makes the water bitter, and it is the third trumpet. I beleive all of Revelation will literally happen. As for space shuttles and firmament, I don't think I could give you a good answer about that. I don't think the space shuttle could bump into heaven, because it is a spiritual place. Or maybe the shuttle can't go that far? I looked up the exact definition of firmament and it gave me this...The vault or expanse of the heavens; the sky. I hope I answered your question

Jenn6162

I don't feel embarrassed, and you all can think of me what you like. Doesn't bother me. I agree the prophecy topic in the OP, has been driven into the ground. So I will open another one. I would like to know Johnny, what prophecy you are referring to where the messiah would become a ruler in Israel?

Jenn6162

No, the sun does not revolve aroound the earth. Yes, I take the Bible literally, but the ones who wrote it did not know that yet.

Paradox

If you believe this, can you explain why horses appear to be the main battle vehicles used in the end-time wars?

Also, out of curiosity, who do you believe the "two witnesses" will be?

Unbeliever

I haven't had the time to read this entire thread yet, so I hope I'm not being too redundant. I'd like to give my take on the NT fulfilling OT "prophecies".


The way I see it is that someone, or a group of someones, wanted to create a messiah story, for what ever reason. So they scoured the OT for any references that they thought might pertain to a messiah, and then wrote the story to incorporate those in such a way as to seemingly fulfill prophecy. The characters and plot of the story were complete fiction, but somewhere along the way that was forgotten, the story became accepted as history, and so was born Christianity.