bacht

Prehistoric peoples needed to track the seasons for following herds or harvesting food. Hunter-gatherers would move from winter camps to summer hunting grounds. Neolithic peoples needed to calculate the agricultural cycle. River civilizations like Egypt and Sumeria needed to mark the annual flooding. You could say that calendars were as critical to survival as weapons and tools.

Species8472

In other words we can safely say that calendars predates any Hebrew text, and thus the Hebrews got it from surrounding civilizations just like many of the myths that turned into bible myths.

IamJoseph

:constern01:

Disagree. An historical writings must give historical datings. Noah predates babylon, and the day and week in the genesis settings predate Noah again - with a calendar of historical datings going back 5700 years. It says the names of Mount Ararat, the river Tigris, as well as the first king in recorded history [Nimrod] - was recorded in Genesis before Babylon existed. I understand I am presenting only written texts here - but so is the writings you mentioned. The difference is one text is historically inclined in its style, while the other contains no historical reference - aside of the fact which is proven!

IamJoseph

E.g.?

IamJoseph

The essential message from the hebrew bible is that the entire region was emersed in astrology as a belief. This appears stemming from humanity percieving the stars and thunder were dieties who were either happy or angry at different times, resulting in dieties, sacrifice, various religions and appeasement modes.

Then this paradigm was broken by a paradigm shift. One Abraham introduced a new premise, and Monotheism was born. This said that all the heavenly bodies are subject to a higher force, and that eventually one force controls everything. This caused widespread disdain, because it lowered the prestige of priests, rulers and all their dieties - a syndrome which has lingered to the present day, even via Christianity and Islam, which introduced novel ways to transcend the Abrahamic premise, negating it or making it subservient to their own preferred beliefs. But the premise remains thus:

'ISRAEL [AND THUS ALL HUMANITY, NATIONS AND RELIGIONS] IS NOT RULED BY THE STARS'

Here, the Zodiac is presented only as an omen/an inclination [Astrology]; while the cosmos is presented as signs/imperical science [Astronomy] - but that it can be prevailed upon by humanity [not ruled by the stars]. This is very logical - else humanity would not have existed today. It means that man will have dominion of the space bodies, even be able to shift Jupiter 5% to the left in the future.

spamandham

Western and near east religions originated in timekeeping, not the other way around. The need to predict the seasons for agriculture drove the development of religion as we know it. The first attempt was a lunar calendar. This is where the idea of 12 months comes from, and also why there are 12 tribes, 12 apostles, etc. Lunar calendars didn't work so well, so more elaborate systems evolved, still focused on the stars, introducing the 7 day week due to the 7 "non-fixed" eye-visible celestial objects, eventually fixing the months at arbitrary numbers of days to try to get closer and closer to the magical 365.24218967 days (at present), with adjustments for the slowing orbit of the earth and precession.

"And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. But as for you, the LORD took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are."

It was just dandy for non-Israelites to worship the sun, moon, and stars. They were apportioned to all the nations.

IamJoseph

The ancestry of all nations were pagan, including the family of Abraham.

In actuality, the Israelites were unable to rid themselves of pagan beliefs when they left Egypt. They failed as no other, even after witnessing great wonders via Moses.

They were given help, by the beseeching of Moses, else they would not have survived. Literally, Moses strived with the Lord and said unless this trait was miraculously removed from Israel - his name must be blotted out from the Hebrew bible. This was a check mate of sorts upon God, specially after Moses was told the Lord found favor in him, and Moses asked of this immediately in response. This was granted, and the Israelites were allowed to enter the land again. Thus Jews cannot use their Monotheism as a merit - it was given them, while other nations have to acquire this without a map or any help. This is my reading of it. Monotheism was acquired by the jews involuntarilly and by default:

'AND IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEIR MINDS WILL I WRITE MY LAWS - EVEN FOREVER'

gaillardia

You have spent way too much time reading Dr. Bronner soap labels.

Species8472

Noah and the flood is a good one for instance.

Species8472

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Have any documentation that this goes back 5700 years?