Mr. Logic

I was just expressing my exasperation at what qualifies as "logic" in the minds of some people (dispensationlists in particular.)

Your exasperation? Sorry but you don't know what exasperation is until you try to correct hundreds of years of ignorance, based on nonsensical blind faith.
Most Scholars say that James has more in common with Jesus than Paul does.
Well, dahh, but that's the problem!
Jesus said to keep the 10 commandments, and James did the same in his short, error filled letter (I will prove this later) while grace was in effect.

Jesus otoh told Jews under the law to keep the law, while it was in effect. Nothing odd about that, but Jesus also talked to the Woman at the Well about a day coming when Worship didn't have to be in the Jerusalem Temple.
The N.T. beyond doubt talks of the "Law of Christ"! Is this not different from the law of Moses? How many Preachers have you ever heard talk about the "Law of Christ"? They never get past the Gospel books. They live under the old Covenant. No wonder they are such failures in practicing what they preach.

Some have asked me: Oh, so you think that it is alright to kill People now, since we don't need the law of Moses?
My Catholic Friend asked me this, and when I finally got her to be quite and listen, was very excited about what I said. I asked her: If our government made it legal to murder anyone that you didn't like, how many would lay dead by your hand?
She said None! I said "Well o.k. then you don't need that law do you"?
It isn't in you to murder someone, so that law is not for you. I told her that there would be a lot of dead People all over our country, but not from those who never needed such a law in the first place.
A Believer in Christ under the New Covenant (Dispensation, if you will) (law within them, which isn't a law at all really, but far beyond the law).

A good question to ask is: "Did God give the law of Moses as a reward for building the Golden Calf"?
Your problem IMO, is that you don't know the true message and so everything is up for grabs. In the U.S. Treasury: Before they train their People on what to look for in counterfeit bills the FIRST TEACH THEM WHAT THE REAL THING LOOKS LIKE. If anything doesn't fit that criteria, a red flag goes up in their minds.

If you understood the psychological perfection that Paul taught, we wouldn't be having this conversion now. Paul taught psychology almost 2,000 years before it became a science. No one understands Paul at first, and most never do, but again psychology wasn't a science until when?

Was psychology easy to understand? That is why few truly get Paul. They have been taught that "Religion", which james loved b t w, was a good thing, even though it is blind faith in something that they have no real understanding of.

Mr. Logic

Why assume that James and Paul had different definitions of faith? Certainly Christ, in whom there is neither Jew nor gentile, did not intend for faith to mean one thing to Jews and something else to gentiles. I, like many, many generations of Christians before me, see no contradiction.

Yep, generations that had a knife to thier throat if anyone disagreed with them. Great Proof! Well done! <s> For the record the Kingdom of God is not a democracy! You can get all the votes up that you want and it won't change the text. Even the Founders of the U.S. rejected democracy, but take a vote on what they believed, and the vote will show that they did.
It's called brainwashing!
I never said that you would see it. For you refuse to see it. You have your mind made up and know what went down almost 2,000 years ago. Funny that you didn't bring up Paul being told that there were thousands of Converts in Jerusalem, and then hearing the bomb shell "They are ALL zealous for the LAW"! Acts 21:20 Why did James and the Elders at Jerusalem say "They have a PROBLEM WITH US"?
Yet, YOU DONT SEE, a diff. btw Paul and James! I believe you, but I also know that you don't have the proof for your beliefs.
I turned around a Catholic Nun, on this subject,that would disagree with you. I pointed out that "James" was written to Jews who confessed Christ, but refused to come out of the law of Moses, and traditions of Men.
She said "I wondered why he didn't mention a church in his greeting but instead wrote to the 12 tribes of Israel. This is very diff. than Paul's letters, just as his view of "Religion" is different.
Please note that you didn't give any proof that they both taught that all are under grace and their is no diff. btw Jew and Gentile. You "declared" your beliefs! Hey, everyone has beliefs and opinions, but I am not presenting mine. I didn't invent this evidence, it was there all along, and anyone that wants to know the truth and takes the time will also know the truth about Grace by faith, what it means and how James opposed it to cater to a bunch of Religionists for empowerment and glorification. He states that God is no respecter of Persons, and yet why is he a Leader? Christ picked or because the Jews knew that he was Jesus' Brother, and they were heavily into nepotism? This is unlike Jesus, who taught "Who is my Mother (Hello Catholic Church) and who are my Brothers but those who do the will of God".

Just dawned on me that you said that the RCC has always taught Grace by Faith, but how could they if they don't believe in the new dispensation? The Jews were under law, until Christ died for sins, and the Church began on Pentecost.

Funny but my daughter has your views, and used my software to teach that the body of Christ existed during Jesus' earthly ministry. She then thought that my Bible Software was in error when she couldn't find anything about the body of Christ in the Gospels! <s>


What Paul taught was unique, but James taught the same old "Be a good boy and eat all your veggies, and you will wing your way to heaven" The problem is that everyone is righteous in their own eyes!

Your right, it is kind of pointless on your end to debate someone like me, because all you can do it declare what you believe. You don't know much about scripture, because you were trained not to challenge your "seems to me's"!
Debating you works for me, however, for it is in an open forum, and someone might just start to realize that they need to stop being a Parrot for Religonism.
The Leaders are into Selfism, and gaining Members. I don't make a dime for all of the years spent on line. It isn't about me, it's about trying to get People to stop defending their programming, which means stop blindly defending that programming by others. The Christian "Religion" has devoted their lives to promoting contradiction.
Show me a person who won't admit that they might be wrong, and I will show you someone who already is.
It isn't me that wins debates it is the logic of the N.T. that wins them. I understand that logic, which didn't come easy, but I was willing. I first had to admit that my opinion means zip.
Paul taught "no diff" btw Jews and Gentiles in Christ. James did not teach such a thing or he wouldn't have catered to Judaizers. Unlike Scholars, I don't get a pay check from an organization, that might give them the boot if they don't go along to get along! More later! Thanks

Roger Pearse

This is indeed a very heavily censored forum. One must either get into the habit of living with the restrictions, or else get fed up and/or get banned.

The idea that those who today call themselves liberals are in favour of freedom of speech is something that they say, but when in power invariably disprove.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Amaleq13

#1) This is not the appropriate forum for discussions about moderator action or IIDB policy so please follow the rules and stick to BC&H-relevant topics.
#2) This particular forum, from all the fora that IIDB offers, actually requires infrequent moderator intervention because most of the regular participants are mature enough to conduct themselves appropriately.
#3) Mr. Logic has been issued only two infractions and I can find none in Roger's record so the basis for complaint does not appear to be in actual personal experiences by the complaining individuals.

Chris Weimer

Did you even read my post?

That's because you either didn't read my post or you didn't understand it. Read it again. If it helps you, perform a line by line exegesis.

If you define 2 = 2.5. But what does that have to do with anything?

Yes, that's the beauty of mathematics.

I don't have any beliefs. How is that hard for you to understand?

Mr. Logic

Thanks for the "Roger that", Roger! I hear that loud and clear, but few actually practice what they preach, so it isn't just Liberals. Prove almost any Talk Show Host wrong, and see how fact they dump you off of the airwaves. So much for the love of freedom of speech. It's all talk for most.

Just the other day, NBC gave a report about an Arms Dealer who got filthy rich off of our Government, but the report gave the old tired out "Our Government fly Bin Laden's family out of the U.S. on 911" as if that proves some kind of conspiracy. This is being a Parrot for the Sicko, Michael Moore, who stated the same, half truth, like most of his comments. There was no mention of them being estranged from Benny baby!
It is amazing how many don't care if they are being suckered, and given whatever the media wants to give them, as long as it agrees with their views.

A basic trick of propagandists is to omit facts from statements, etc. The ACLU is a group that I once thought to be for equal rights, etc. as they claim, but I bused them lying to the American People, which proved that they had an agenda.
The claimed that Capitol Punishment doesn't work since California's murder rate did not decline in years even though they had the death penelty.
That pretty much settled it for me, until I heard them in a face to face with someone that knew their tricks and deceipt. He pointed out, what they refused to.
No one had been put to death in years in Cal.
Why would this organization that claims to be for justice, lie to the American People? As Americans we should be able to get all the data, so that we can make our own informed discussion. Anyone disagree with that? Can't tell you how many Liberals were beside themselves that the Swift Boat Vets got to be heard. One Local D.J. that I know, told me that they should not have been allowed to speak out like that. I said, that's interesting that you don't think that I should be able to hear their side, only the side of a filthy rich Politician who claims to hate tax breaks for the rich! He said that he didn't mean it like that! I told him that he indeed wanted for me not to hear what they had to say and make my own decision.
He didn't know what to say at that point!
The Right does it too. Hannity went on and on about the National Guard and how it is a fine service, etc. So? It is a different organization now then when the draft was on. Many went into the Guard to avoid Viet Nam, and everyone of them that I knew that did, had someone get them in.



Blessings and Thanks

Mr. Logic

Why did you sign your name Chris Weimer? You must "believe" that this is your name, right, or else why sign it? Everyone has beliefs. I have explained the beauty of math, Friend, but you don't have any beliefs, so why would you have a belief about your view of the beauty of it? An Agostic, I can understand. I was one for years, because of the silly way that "Christians" present scripture (Bible as they call it). 2 and 2 is always going to be 4 no matter how many "feel" another way about it!
Over and Out!

Spanky

Roger, what happened to you?


I take no offense at this statement it's just I find it, not true. I don't see ANY censorship on this forum. NONE. Actually, I wish there was more. Especially here. Why? Because I don't like what people say? No, it's because I don't like how they say it. Say whatever you want, just say it in a mature manner.

Again, what happened?

seven8s

How so if 5-1 is 4? <s>

seven8s

Iow’s is ‘logic’ ever faulty? What about 3+1, does it ever equal 4?

If not have we cut off our nose to spite our face?

Different strokes for different folks, like attracts like. That is why ‘truth’ is subjective, it allows change. And facts are objective, supports continuance. Hmm, maybe it is stability, yes. Change equals growth, where as continuance equals stability. A universe fine tuned likes us, because we are like it, hence, like it.