Steven Carr

Jesus on the cross said - ‘Father, forgive them for they know not what they do'

Luke 11:49 ‘Therefore also the Wisdom of God said ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute, so that this generation may be charged with the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you it will be charged against this generation.’

Why did Jesus say that this generation will be held responsible for the killing of prophets and also ask His Father to forgive them because they knew not what they did?

Were the people who were forgiven part of the same generation that Jesus said would be held responsible?

andrewcriddle

One problem is that the 'Father Forgive them for they know not what they do' clause in Luke 23:34 is missing in many ancient manuscripts.

However, given the parallel in Acts 7:60, it is IMO probably an original part of Luke which was omitted in many manuscripts because of concerns about its compatibility with the idea that the destruction of Jerusalem in CE 70 was Gods Judgement for the rejection of Jesus by his fellow Jews.

(ie Steven Carr's concerns about this passage appear to have been shared to some extent by at least some people in the ancient world.)

One of the problems with the compatibility of Luke 23:34 with other passages in Luke and the NT in general is that it is not clear exactly who are the 'them' for whom Christ asks forgiveness. It might be the Roman soldiers who were 'just obeying orders', or the soldiers plus the Jews involved, or specifically the Jews involved. The question of the compatibility of the verse with the rest of Luke will depend to some extent on how it should be interpreted.

(Although Luke has reduced the specific mentions of Roman soldiers in the crucifixion compaared to Mark, IMO he regards the physical crucifixion as done by Roman soldiers as is made more explicit in the other Gospels.)

Andrew Criddle

Chili

Interesting question. You must understand that Judaism is a mystery religion that works like a salvation machine despite the fervor of its members. There are two things involved here, first, "salvation comes as a thief in the night" as if it comes despite ourselves and despite our efforts. Second, the very religion that brought salvation must crucify the saved sinner who therefore asked that they will be forgiven.

To perish between the altar and the sanctuary is to die for the faith instead of being liberated by the faith from the faith. It kind of sanctifies the temple (as any murder would).


According to Matthew and Mark the Jews killed Jesus because Jesus claimed to be the son of God and they willfully put this claim to the test (and rightly so, I might add).

In Luke Jesus voluntary ends his human will and placed it subservient to Gods will. There was no blame and no fame but just fact without emotion.

And in John Jesus said "now it is finished" to show that he was fully in charge of his destiny and wanted it to be just the way it was.

So whereas the Jews thought that they were crucifying Jesus it was Jesus who had the Jews crucify him. This knowledge transforms the tragedy into a comedy, which nevertheless remained a tragedy in the eyes of those who killed him who must therefore be forgiven.

John A. Broussard

Back in my Catholic school days we were told that gypsies did the actual nailing. Does anyone know where this part of the myth came from?

Toto

The legend of the nails for the Cross of Jesus Of course, there were no gypsies in the middle east until centuries later. But why ruin a good story?

Steven Carr

It might be the Roman soldiers, although I don't think anybody has ever claimed that the actual PBI who did the crucifying should be held guilty.