Duvduv

There is nothing to explain about Marcion. Because nothing survives from any writings of Marcion. Even the Apology of Justin says nothing of the writings of Marcion who allegedly lived in the same time and city as Justin.
All that is left are claims shared by several ancient propagandists.
And there is no evidence of any group dividing up the gospels that the orthodox believed were a set since the beginning.

outhouse

we dont need his works to know he was the first to put, a collection of scripture together.

we also know people looked down on him because of how little he used in his collection.

"shame on Marcions erasor"

jdboy

Here is Josephus telling us that in a dream God told him to foretell what is to come. God is telling Josephus to create the NT prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem.
According to the rules of prophecy found in Deut it's a good idea not to presume something but to wait til after the event then create the prophecy.
Bk 3 ch 8
"Now Josephus was able to give shrewd conjectures about the interpretation of such dreams as have been ambiguously delivered by God. Moreover, he was not unacquainted with the prophecies contained in the sacred books, as being a priest himself, and of the posterity of priests: and just then was he in an ecstasy; and setting before him the tremendous images of the dreams he had lately had, he put up a secret [prayer] to God, and said, "Since it pleaseth thee, who hast created the Jewish nation, to depress the same, and since all their good fortune is gone over to the Romans, and since thou hast made choice of this soul of mine to foretell what is to come to pass hereafter, I willingly give them my hands, and am content to live. And I protest openly that I do not go over to the Romans as a deserter of the Jews, but as a minister from thee."

So the conclusion is Josephus the prophet of God is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth

jdboy

Can we answer the question; Could anything good come Josephus from Nazareth?
The purpose of writing Wars of The Jews was according to Josephus was to dissuade other governments from attempting rebellion. And that if you followed the example of jesus the high priest and surrendered you had life. It seems that no nothing really changed

aa5874

In War of the Jews 6.5.4, Josephus did declare that VESPASIAN was the Prophesied Messianic ruler found in Hebrew Scripture.

It was also claimed that Vespasian CURED Blindness with Spit and Healed the lame with a touch by Suetonius in "Life of Vespasian".

Josephus did NOT write anything about the Jesus of the NT or about salvation by any character called Jesus the high priest.


Wars of the Jews 6.5.4

jdboy

Josephus has a request from God to create a prophecy of the coming events. The first prophecy he makes is to the zealots, He predicts that they will not succeed. He is captured then predicts that the government of vespasian will be the world ruler predicted by the jewish prophets. Vespasian is convinced after Josephus predicts that jophata can be captured at a certain time of day, this comes true.Vespasian orders his son titus to capture jerusalem with josephus as guide and Eyewitness. Afterwards the flavians ask him to write a chronicle of the war. Now he has two requests one from God one from the flavians. Wars of the Jews is published right away(75AD). The NT prophecy is not finished till the coming events have come to pass, the revelation is written around 93 AD
God raised up Josephus a prophet Josephus is the one eyewitness from the beginning jesus needed to confirm the prophecies he made were from God.
i'm just thinking out loud

Duvduv

We have still not determined WHO authorized individual heresiologists ascribed to the 2nd century to advocate on behalf of official texts for their religion or WHO decided this was even necessary. There was no emperor, there was no official council and no Vatican. So WHO did so if it was advocated already in the 2nd century, and WHY was it even necessary that early?!

Toto

Why do you need to know who exactly? Maybe it was Polycarp, but that's probably not his real name.

You write as if you don't understand how organizations work.

sotto voce

Of course we have. How many times does it need to be said that the Roman Empire cultivated its own 'poodles' (such as Polycarp and Clement) from an early stage? Who were the grievous wolves of whom Paul spoke? Who were the teachers of whom Peter wrote who invented stories? The very same people complained of by Tacitus when he mentioned 'spies everywhere'. If one does not understand the nature and workings of the Roman Empire, in Britain, in Spain, in Rome, in Corinth, anywhere, one will never understand the history of its period, and the existence of these favoured heresiarchs.

What few people seem to consider is how a religion that forced an empire to destroy thousands of temples in the face of riots, to adopt its name, to enforce its following throughout, did so when there was at any one time but a tiny handful of spokesmen to apparently represent it. That they obviously survived only because they without fail misrepresented it is a colossal clue.

Duvduv

Yes, but NOT IN THE SECOND CENTURY OBVIOUSLY. That is precisely my point.