Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Calzaer · 01-07-2004, 03:39 PM

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I'm still interested in any lists of fundamentalist Christian doctrines/actions that liberal Christians should "take stands" against and why they should, based in their Christianity.

If they don't take a stand against the fundies, they have no <edited at poster's request - coas> right to insist that fundies are just a vocal minority.

If you feel you have no reason to stand up to them, don't go <edited at poster's request - coas>around that you're lumped into the same group that they are. Because YOU ARE in the same group.

Thank you, wildernesse, for helping me support my position that there's no such thing as a "liberal Christian", just non-confrontational fundamentalists.

the_cave · 01-07-2004, 04:06 PM

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Originally posted by Calzaer
If they don't take a stand against the fundies, they have no <edited for consistency, Lana> right to insist that fundies are just a vocal minority.

But there *are* churches that take a public stand against certain fundamentalist positions...on gay marriage (! The Episcopal Church, for example!), the ordination of women (ditto), homosexuality in general (there is even a network of churches specifically geared towards homosexual Christians), and so on

Starboy · 01-07-2004, 05:45 PM

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Originally posted by wildernesse
What is it in the Christian religion that should make a Christian do what you would like liberal Christians to do? Where do you find directions within Christianity to support church state separation? Or any activity involving public schools or politics? Why should a Christian of any stripe feel compelled to rebuke those who are not members of their congregation? I'll take Bible verses or traditional teachings.

I suppose you're right wildernesse. The idea of Christians trying to have non-Christians see them as decent people is not a Christian ideal. Okay then, do not be surprised when we do not.

Starboy

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:09 PM

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Originally posted by Dargo
I think one of the problems liberal Christians face is that they know the Bible is usually on the side of the fundies. Confronting the fundies forces them to publicly admit the Bible is mostly crap and thus undermine their religion.

When literal inerrantists cannot agree on what the Bible is telling them--as the diversity in fundamentalist theology can show--it is interesting that it could be on their "side".

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:13 PM

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Originally posted by Lanakila
Religious Right agenda:

Pushing Government to promote religion, and primarily Judeo/Christian religion.

Making any and all abortion illegal everywhere on the planet.

Promoting intolerance or gays, lesbians, and bisexuals.

Forcing public schools, colleges, and universities to teach creationism as a viable science.

That is all I can think of off hand. But I am sure there are more points.

And

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by Karalora

Institutionalizing a view of gender roles that denies women the right to full financial and social independence.

Forbidding the dissemination of information regarding contraception and reproductive health to unmarried people.

What would you like liberal Christians to do to oppose those things? Why should they due to their liberal Christian theology?

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:15 PM

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Originally posted by Krosis
just a small aside here..

the "golden rule" actually predates christianity by centuries.. though I don't know the exact timeframe..

we now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

-cheers

I never said otherwise. That the golden rule predates Christianity does not mean it is not part of the tradition and scripture of Christianity.

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:24 PM

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Originally posted by LadyShea
Liberal and fundamentlist Christians read the same Bible, but intepret it differently. The only reason a Liberal Christian should "stand up" to a fundamentalist is if they feel that the fundamentalists are misrepresenting Christianity as a whole, or badly misintepreting the Bible.

Why in those cases? Since no one can lay a finger on "True Christianity", when do/should they decide what is misrepresentation?

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:29 PM

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Originally posted by braces_for_impact
But I do know one thing. Christians, especially liberal ones I notice, are constantly complaining about the church. The church is divided, the church needs to come together, the Christian religion needs to congregate, etc. Could it be that liberal Christians in general do not want to appear divided? I could see how as a Christian, to appear divided could be frightening. It could mean weakness, and many Christians seem to think they're losing their religion to a secular world already. Appearing divided could cast doubt on Christianity's claim to hold "The Truth". I can see many reasons why this might be problematic, but I am only supposing here, I don't really know.

Why do so many Christians take such a "hands off" policy even when they dissagree?

Obviously not all Christians take this approach. I have seen a few here stand up to a fundamentalist. They just seem the exception rather that the rule.

Thank you for your speculation on why liberal Christians don't confront other Christians.

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:41 PM

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Originally posted by trendkill
The question as I see it isn't whether liberal Christians should stand up to fundamentalists, it's whether atheists should distinguish between the two. Many liberal Christians on this board appear to be of the opinion that they should. Atheists have put forth criteria that they would accept for making the distinction, such as anti-fundamentalist activism.

If the liberal Christians want to convince the atheists to make the distinction between them and fundamentalists, they must either show that such criteria have been met or persuade the atheists that there are better criteria to judge by.

I've been amused all afternoon by your referral to the half dozen posters who likely fall under the label Liberal Christian here as "many". My question is simply about more specific examples of that anti-fundamentalist activism.

wildernesse · 01-07-2004, 08:48 PM

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Originally posted by Calzaer
Thank you, wildernesse, for helping me support my position that there's no such thing as a "liberal Christian", just non-confrontational fundamentalists.

You're welcome. I think you're right. I'm really very non-confrontational IRL and only slightly less so online.

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