Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jack the Bodiless · 08-18-2004, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

Yes Hitler was anti-Christian. Read some of his other books where he calls christianity a plague, an abomination, the worst invention in history etc.

"Other books" you conveniently do not name, Magus.

Would these be in the same library as the "original, inerrant Bible", I wonder?

Quote:

And maybe the "god" the belt buckles were referring to was Hitler?

He certaintly had a big enough ego.

Nope, it was the Christian God.

If Hitler had declared himself a god, don't you think the Christian Nazis would have objected? (German Nazis were 50% Lutheran and 35% Catholic, according to their own membership records)

French Prometheus · 08-18-2004, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

Yes Hitler was anti-Christian. Read some of his other books where he calls christianity a plague, an abomination, the worst invention in history etc. And maybe the "god" the belt buckles were referring to was Hitler?

He certaintly had a big enough ego.

As Jack the Bodiless asked you, what other books did Hitler write that prove that he was anti-Christian? He certainly believed that he had a "special" role to play in (the Christian) God's plans but he's not the first (nor the last) to believe so.

We're not dealing here with the beliefs or sayings of some ancient figure whose very existence is controversial. We're dealing with a man who lived 60 years ago and who left MANY writings and recorded speeches.

Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf about the genesis of his own antisemitism :

Quote:

I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought.

At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party.
[...]
The man and the movement seemed 'reactionary' in my eyes. My common sense of justice, however, forced me to change this judgment in proportion as I had occasion to become acquainted with the man and his work; and slowly my fair judgment turned to unconcealed admiration. Today, more than ever, I regard this man as the greatest German mayor of all times.
[...]
the unprecedented rise of the Christian Social Party... was to assume the deepest significance for me as a classical object of study.

The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.
[...]
If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been ranked among the great minds of our people.

And he also wrote in the same infamous book that :

Quote:

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
[...]
The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.

And much more could be quoted...

Now the most important question is : why the fuck does it matter that Hitler considered himself a Christian? Are you Christians so unsure of the worth of your religion that you feel threatened by the mere existence of monsters who believed in Christ (although not the same way you do)?

whichphilosophy · 08-18-2004, 09:04 AM

If Hitler was a Christian, I can only say he was an insane Christian. We can also say a lunatic who believed in Christianity.

Likewise Pol Pot was an insane atheist.

Regards,

Toto · 08-18-2004, 10:20 AM

The Great Scandal: Christianity's Role in the Rise of the Nazis is the best article I have read on the question.

Hitler was raised as a Catholic and was never excommunicated from the church. He was not a standard Christian, but he did think of himself as Christian, although his religion was Aryanism.

Quote:

With the nineteenth century came a European movement that viewed Judaism as a racial curse. Attracting both Protestant and Catholic dissidents within Germanic populations, Aryan Christianity differed from traditional Christianity in denying both that Christ was a Jew and that Christianity had grown out of Judaism.9 Adherents viewed Christ as a divine Aryan warrior who brought the sword to cleanse the earth of Jews.10 Aryans were held to be the only true humans, specially created by God through Adam and Eve; all other peoples were soulless subhumans, descended from apes or created by Satan with no hope of salvation.11 Most non-Aryans were considered suitable for subservient roles including slavery, but not the Jews. Spiritless yet clever and devious, Jews were seen as a satanic disease to be quarantined or eliminated.

Made of Snakes · 08-18-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

although his religion was Aryanism

No, Aryanism was his policy and his general ideology. Aryanism as a religion means that you believe that Brahma created the universe and his chosen people at one point lived in the Indus River Valley.

IrishGuy · 08-18-2004, 06:08 PM

I'll throw in another link for the Hitler-NonChristian side.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...24/i3/nazi.asp

Side Note: Interesting article on the link between evolution and The Holocaust: http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea.../holocaust.asp

Neither of them are very long.

Magus55 · 08-18-2004, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus_fr

Now the most important question is : why the fuck does it matter that Hitler considered himself a Christian? Are you Christians so unsure of the worth of your religion that you feel threatened by the mere existence of monsters who believed in Christ (although not the same way you do)?

It matters because atheists like to use people like Hitler as a reason to why Christianity, and religion in general is such a plague on the world. You have the attitude that, well if one of the worst humans in history was Christian, the whole religion must be crap. Its a complete strawman, but one used quite often by atheists against Christians.

IrishGuy · 08-18-2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

It matters because atheists like to use people like Hitler as a reason to why Christianity, and religion in general is such a plague on the world. You have the attitude that, well if one of the worst humans in history was Christian, the whole religion must be crap. Its a complete strawman, but one used quite often by atheists against Christians.

Thank you :thumbs:

TySixtus · 08-18-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

"Other books" you conveniently do not name, Magus.

Would these be in the same library as the "original, inerrant Bible", I wonder?

:rolling:

:notworthy

Ty

Bright Life · 08-18-2004, 09:17 PM

I know plenty of atheists who are complete asshats. Just look at the number of non-theists banned from IIDB because they don't know how to behave.

I know they say they are atheists, but I'm not going to go around trying to prove that they are closet theists to uphold the "atheist reputation" (whatever that is). Why? I don't care! I know that people do things good and bad for a multitude of reasons.

I think the problem here is that theists often claim that just by being "christian," a person becomes a better, "christ-like" person. This is troublesome to many, especially when one person's interpretation of christianity differs wildly from their own. Hence, the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. When defining a world-wide belief system in the narrow focus of one group's, or person's perspective, some christians are unable to accept another's assertation that he or she is, also christian.

BL

08-18-2004, 09:04 AM	#13
whichphilosophy Contributor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Abu Dhabi Europe and Philippines Posts: 11,254	Hitler insane. If Hitler was a Christian, I can only say he was an insane Christian. We can also say a lunatic who believed in Christianity. Likewise Pol Pot was an insane atheist. Regards,

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08-18-2004, 06:08 PM	#16
IrishGuy Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 347	I'll throw in another link for the Hitler-NonChristian side. http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...24/i3/nazi.asp Side Note: Interesting article on the link between evolution and The Holocaust: http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea.../holocaust.asp Neither of them are very long.

08-18-2004, 09:17 PM	#20
Bright Life Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,345	I know plenty of atheists who are complete asshats. Just look at the number of non-theists banned from IIDB because they don't know how to behave. I know they say they are atheists, but I'm not going to go around trying to prove that they are closet theists to uphold the "atheist reputation" (whatever that is). Why? I don't care! I know that people do things good and bad for a multitude of reasons. I think the problem here is that theists often claim that just by being "christian," a person becomes a better, "christ-like" person. This is troublesome to many, especially when one person's interpretation of christianity differs wildly from their own. Hence, the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. When defining a world-wide belief system in the narrow focus of one group's, or person's perspective, some christians are unable to accept another's assertation that he or she is, also christian. BL

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