Thor Q. Mada

Well if the present pope dosen't use cannabis , I eat my hat!!

Jan Haugland

krazytamak
I am quite sure there are interesting parallels there, but my point was that the apocapyptic symbols of the Bible, e.g. Daniel and Revelation, is very carefully created; they are not based on visions or hallucinations whatever the authors say. It may appear that way to a modern reader, but there is a very specific message in those books, and it's one of religious piety. The author of Revelation, for example, carefully used sumbols from Daniel and adapted them for his purpose. I doubt that hallucinations would be that coherent.

Btw, I agree that the etymological similarity between Hebrew "kaneh-bosm" and cannabis is striking. Whether the words are actually related I cannot say.

Exodus 30:31-33: "Say to the Israelites, 'This is to be my sacred anointing oil for the generations to come. Do not pour it on men's bodies and do not make any oil with the same formula. It is sacred, and you are to consider it sacred. Whoever makes perfume like it and whoever puts it on anyone other than a priest must be cut off from his people.' "

Pretty clear, as I see it.

Assuming, of course, we are talking about the same sacred anointing oil.

That is a matter of dispute. The gospels themselves insist repeatedly that Jesus did not violate the laws, only particular, unreasonable interpretations of the them.

At any rate, it is a massive stretch to conclude that the anointing oil used by the Christians was the ancient, sacred ceremonial oil allegedly used in early Israelite religion.


- Jan

...who rants and raves every day at Secular Blasphemy

krazytamak

This passage only bans it for non-priests. But this is how it always was since its introduction into Judaism. The thing is at some point, the Jews banned it for everyone, and priests were to stop using it as well. I was looking for where this happens and why.




Maybe the way I worded it, as breaking Jewish laws, does not convey my meaning. What I was trying to say is that Jesus was part of the alternative culture of his time. He rejected much of what was the established norm in his Jewish society.

For example, he hated his family, left them, and sought disciples who were also on the fringe of society. I learned this in my Intro to Christianity class, so I got the impression that it was pretty well established. Since I predict that someone will disagree with this I have put one of the quotations from the Bible that supports this. But I know there are supposed to be more from other sources as well.

Luke 14:26 "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Jan said,

I have several issues with this quotation.
1. the ceremonial oil was not allegedly used in early Judaism. It was used. there is nothing allged about it.

2. It is hardly a "massive" stretch to connect the OT holy oil to the ubiquitous early Christian oil. Christianity has its roots in Judaism. Jesus and his disciples grew up as little Jewish boys. They learned Jewish theology and imagery and incorporated and that was incorporated into Christianity. It is hardly a "massive" stretch to say then that they incorporated a Jewish physical object (holy oil) and simply altered the ritual from anointing just priests to anointing everyone in a process called baptism.

If you go to my long post (posted by Toto) and look at Point#2 and then you go to the post right after that by Peter Kirby and look for the following two excerpts "UNCTION" by Tertullian, On Baptism and "Theophilus to Autolycus Chapter 12," you will find four different sources that parallel the anointing of oil on early Christians to the anointing of oil on Jewish priests. At no point does it say that the Christian holy oil is the same as the Jewish one, but at the same time at no point in the parallel does it say that the oil is not the same as the Jewish one. If we are left to guess, I think it is much fairer to say that it is "probable but not confirmed" that it is the Jewish holy oil.

Vorkosigan

Krazy -- I really admire the way you've put this together.

This is probably a dumb question, but if it was the same oil the two sides were using, how did the Xtians get the recipe?

Vorkosigan

krazytamak

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Exodus 30:22-25 has the recipe for the OT holy oil so I don't think it was a big secret. Furthermore, the original Christians had grown up as Jews, so they had access to and awareness of all of Jewish culture and religion since that is how they were raised.

Carrie

Um... I'm just going to do like the Christians do, and just BELIEVE.

If you tell me Jesus got high, I believe you. Sounds about right to me. I don't need any damn proof. I just want to believe it. And besides, you have all this good evidence, so I'm going to accept whatever you say. I totally believe Jesus was a stoner. No one can prove he wasn't, therefore I believe he was.

Sounds like a Christian arguing that the resurrection really happened huh?

LostGirl

I have heard unsupported claims (which I am unabashedly passing on without even trying to back them up) that Jesus actually did have "three wise men" from the East (India and Asia) who stuck around during his childhood as teachers. This teaching, I'm not so sure of.
I do think it's interesting that the Bible loses track of Jesus for ten years or so. The right amount of time to (supposedly) travel to India and study at some of the ashrams there. The most obvious evidence for this is the similarity of the underlying basis of Jesus' teachings with certain Hindu and Buddhist principles. Or not. I don't really know if this point is supportable, but . . .

Why couldn't Jesus have gotten the Sativa strain of marijuana from India at the very least? Maybe he knew this old Hebrew recipe, and while studying, decided to experiment with the really good pot. The newer, stronger stuff plus some interesting new principles to blend with OT wisdom . . . hey, I think it's a darn pretty picture.

krazytamak

LostGirl, I wonder if there is any evidence to support a Jesus in India story. I don't know.

I do know that if he was in fact ever in India or exposed to the culture, then he most probably would have also been exposed to the religious use of marijuana, since in early Hinduism, marijuana was considered a sacred plant. It was used as ganja or bhang in different religious festivals.

The 1898 Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report is the main Western survey that documents this. http://www.mikuriya.com/ihdc.html has excerpts although there are many other websites that have info about this if you do a google search.

The thousand+ page report was sponsored by the British government of colonial India in order to learn more about indian hemp and its use in India.

Toto

Posted in a recent GRD thread:

Marijuana and the Bible by The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church

Tornado Watch

Not unless you are smoking the good shit.