Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 01-03-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

The JC figure of gMark is a ‘salvation’ figure. i.e. your imaginary Q founder figure, an imaginary flesh and blood figure, is deemed to hold ‘salvation’ potential...

The JC of gMark was NOT a Salvation figure at all--Never was.

The very supposed Jesus in gMark claimed he wanted the outsiders to REMAIN IN SIN by speaking in parables.

Mark 4

Quote:

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see , and not perceive ; and hearing they may hear , and not understand ; lest at any time they should be converted , and their sins should be forgiven them.

The very supposed Jesus in gMark demanded that the disciples Tell NO-ONE he was Christ.

Mark 8

Quote:

29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am ? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.

gMark's Jesus story was NOT about a Saviour that was sacrificied for Remission of Sins.

The gMark story is extremely clear and precise.

gMark's Jesus story is about a Son of God that supposedly performed Miracles that no man could do and that he was REJECTED by the Jews and was delivered up to be killed by the very same Jews whom he healed, fed, and raised their dead.

The gMark's story was an explanation for the FALL of the Jewish Temple of Their God.

maryhelena · 01-03-2013, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

The JC figure of gMark is a ‘salvation’ figure. i.e. your imaginary Q founder figure, an imaginary flesh and blood figure, is deemed to hold ‘salvation’ potential...

The JC of gMark was NOT a Salvation figure at all--Never was.

The very supposed Jesus in gMark claimed he wanted the outsiders to REMAIN IN SIN by speaking in parables.

Mark 4

Quote:

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see , and not perceive ; and hearing they may hear , and not understand ; lest at any time they should be converted , and their sins should be forgiven them.

The very supposed Jesus in gMark demanded that the disciples Tell NO-ONE he was Christ.

Mark 8

Quote:

29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am ? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.

gMark's Jesus story was NOT about a Saviour that was sacrificied for Remission of Sins.

The gMark story is extremely clear and precise.

gMark's Jesus story is about a Son of God that supposedly performed Miracles that no man could do and that he was REJECTED by the Jews and was delivered up to be killed by the very same Jews whom he healed, fed, and raised their dead.

The gMark's story was an explanation for the FALL of the Jewish Temple of Their God.

'Salvation'?

Salvation

Quote:

Salvation, in religion, is the saving of the soul from sin and its consequences.[1] It may also be called "deliverance" or "redemption" from sin and its effects.[2]

[T2]
Mark 2:5

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Mark 2:7

“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Mark 2:9

Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?

Mark 2:10

But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man,

[/T2]

aa5874 · 01-04-2013, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

gMark's Jesus story was NOT about a Saviour that was sacrificied for Remission of Sins.

The gMark story is extremely clear and precise.

gMark's Jesus story is about a Son of God that supposedly performed Miracles that no man could do and that he was REJECTED by the Jews and was delivered up to be killed by the very same Jews whom he healed, fed, and raised their dead.

The gMark's story was an explanation for the FALL of the Jewish Temple of Their God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

'Salvation'?

Salvation

Quote:

Salvation, in religion, is the saving of the soul from sin and its consequences.[1] It may also be called "deliverance" or "redemption" from sin and its effects.[2]

The Markan Jesus story is NOT about Remission of Sins BY THE CRUCIFIXION.

The Markan Jesus FORGAVE SINS BEFORE his supposed Crucifixion to SHOW that he was the Son of GOD.

Based on the meaning of Salvation the Markan Jesus did NOT come to provide Salvation to the outsiders.

Mark 4

Quote:

[11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables

12 That seeing they may see , and not perceive ; and hearing they may hear , and not understand ; lest at any time they should be converted , and their sins should be forgiven them.

No forgiveness of sin at any time--No Salvation at any time for the outsiders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

[T2]
Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Mark 2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Mark 2:9
Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?

Mark 2:10
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man,

[/T2]

The Markan Jesus performed Miracles and Forgave Sins which NO man could do but the Jews, the outsiders did NOT Perceive, and did NOT understand that Jesus was the Son of God.

The Jews claimed the supposed Markan Jesus was a Blasphemer.

Not even the disciples really understood that the Markan Jesus was the Son of God, they abandoned him or denied him and the visitors to the tomb went to Anoint the dead body of Jesus because they understood NOT that Jesus, the Son of God, would RISE from the dead.

The Markan Jesus story is NOT about Salvation by the Crucifixion--it is about the Son of God that was Delivered up by the Jews to be killed.

We know EXACTLY where the Markan author derived his story. It was based on Isaiah 6.

Isaiah 6

Quote:

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying , Whom shall I send , and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

9 And he said , Go , and tell this people, Hear ye indeed , but understand not; and see ye indeed , but perceive not.

10 Make the heart of this people fat , and make their ears heavy , and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert , and be healed .

11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered , Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant , and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate

The Markan Jesus story was composed AFTER the Fall of the Temple and Jerusalem was made desolate and was written PRECISELY to explain why it happened--it was because the Jews delivered up the Son of God to be Killed.

1. Aristides' Apology

Quote:

But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried..

2. Justin's Dialogue with Trrypho

Quote:

...Accordingly, these things have happened to you in fairness and justice, for you have slain the Just One...

3. Hippolytus' Treatise Against the Jews

Quote:

7. But why, O prophet, tell us, and for what reason, was the temple made desolate? .... it was because they killed the Son of their Benefactor...

maryhelena · 01-04-2013, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

gMark's Jesus story was NOT about a Saviour that was sacrificied for Remission of Sins.

The gMark story is extremely clear and precise.

gMark's Jesus story is about a Son of God that supposedly performed Miracles that no man could do and that he was REJECTED by the Jews and was delivered up to be killed by the very same Jews whom he healed, fed, and raised their dead.

The gMark's story was an explanation for the FALL of the Jewish Temple of Their God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

'Salvation'?

Salvation

Quote:

Salvation, in religion, is the saving of the soul from sin and its consequences.[1] It may also be called "deliverance" or "redemption" from sin and its effects.[2]

The Markan Jesus story is NOT about Remission of Sins BY THE CRUCIFIXION.

The Markan Jesus FORGAVE SINS BEFORE his supposed Crucifixion to SHOW that he was the Son of GOD.

Great! The Markan Jesus did not need a crucifixion in order to forgive sins - to provide a 'salvation' of some sort.

Quote:

Based on the meaning of Salvation the Markan Jesus did NOT come to provide Salvation to the outsiders.

And I never posted anything to suggest otherwise....;-)

Quote:

Mark 4

Quote:

[11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables

12 That seeing they may see , and not perceive ; and hearing they may hear , and not understand ; lest at any time they should be converted , and their sins should be forgiven them.

No forgiveness of sin at any time--No Salvation at any time for the outsiders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

[T2]
Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Mark 2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Mark 2:9
Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?

Mark 2:10
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man,

[/T2]

The Markan Jesus performed Miracles and Forgave Sins which NO man could do but the Jews, the outsiders did NOT Perceive, and did NOT understand that Jesus was the Son of God.

The Jews claimed the supposed Markan Jesus was a Blasphemer.

Not even the disciples really understood that the Markan Jesus was the Son of God, they abandoned him or denied him and the visitors to the tomb went to Anoint the dead body of Jesus because they understood NOT that Jesus, the Son of God, would RISE from the dead.

The Markan Jesus story is NOT about Salvation by the Crucifixion--it is about the Son of God that was Delivered up by the Jews to be killed.

We know EXACTLY where the Markan author derived his story. It was based on Isaiah 6.

Isaiah 6

Quote:

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying , Whom shall I send , and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

9 And he said , Go , and tell this people, Hear ye indeed , but understand not; and see ye indeed , but perceive not.

10 Make the heart of this people fat , and make their ears heavy , and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert , and be healed .

11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered , Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant , and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate

The Markan Jesus story was composed AFTER the Fall of the Temple and Jerusalem was made desolate and was written PRECISELY to explain why it happened--it was because the Jews delivered up the Son of God to be Killed.

1. Aristides' Apology

Quote:

But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried..

2. Justin's Dialogue with Trrypho

Quote:

...Accordingly, these things have happened to you in fairness and justice, for you have slain the Just One...

3. Hippolytus' Treatise Against the Jews

Quote:

7. But why, O prophet, tell us, and for what reason, was the temple made desolate? .... it was because they killed the Son of their Benefactor...

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