Toto

Philippe* - please check my post on the first page of this thread on the unreliability of H.R. Trevor-Roper's translation.

Philippe*

I don't believe that all the translation of this letter is unreliable.
However in Europe, there is almost no christian neonazis, they are all pagans, they simply don't understand why they are christian neo nazis in America.

Philippe

Bright Life

I don't understand how ANYONE could be a neo-nazi, religion be damned.

Anyway, does anyone else think this is getting a bit old?

I think we have established that whether Hitler was christian or not is really irrelevant. The point of it all is really that being a christian doesn't put a halo on your head anymore than being an atheist makes you sprout horns.

This is the point. Does anyone disagree?

BL

Jack the Bodiless

It isn't just Trevor-Roper's translation that's a problem.

There is also the involvement of Martin Bormann: who apparently WAS a Nazi atheist (or at least a non-Christian), and had his own agenda. Anything claimed about Hitler by Bormann needs to be treated as suspect.

French Prometheus

This point has been addressed several times. The evidence you quote was fabricated or distorted for Christian propaganda purposes and has been debunked earlier on this thread.
I gave you an exemple of a private comment by Hitler :
Hitler's words "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" were addressed in private to Gerhard Engel and can be found in the latter's private diary.
Anyway, Hitler had gone through the Catholic sacraments and was never excommunicated by the Church. By the Church's standards, he was a Roman Catholic anyway. And Mein Kampf never appeared on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum.
Hitler's biographer John Toland states: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite the detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jews was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god. ..."
BTW, will you also say that Karl Lueger (Hitler's inspirational source) wasn't a Christian?


Nazi germany was officially a Christian country, whatever the beliefs of individual Nazi leaders or soldiers. Gott mit Uns didn't refer to Odin... See above.

You can be both a Nazi and a Christian. You can believe in the Bible and accept Jesus as your lord and savior and still be a Nazi. It's all about choosing the parts of the Gospels you want to follow and the parts you want to ignore.

There is a major cultural and theological divide between standard Christianity in America and standard Christianity in Europe. What is regarded as normal by many Christians in the US (i.e. creationism) is often regarded as preposterous beyond words by the vast majority of European Christians.

French Prometheus

I agree and this would be an interesting topic for another thread.

Philippe*

OK, I have enough said about Hitler, it is utterly barbaric to be a nazi, and really stupid to be a christian nazi from a normal european point of view even for the most of neonazis.
However if it is to stress that one can be a christian massmurderer, there are other clearer examples.

For instance, about he famous quote:
"Kill them all, for God knows his own!"

In order to wipe out Catharism, a religion thriving in the south of France, the predominant Christian power of the time ordered a crusade. The crusade, named the Albigensian Crusade, lasted thirty-years. The death toll from this butchery is estimated at one-million lives, many of whom were Catholics, indistinguishable from Cathars by the marauders. Even children were slaughtered. One commander, Arnaud Amaury, told his men:

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."
"Kill them all, for God knows his own!"

Philippe

The Evil One

And don't forget Charlemagne!

Magus55

The ones that put Christian on their census, but don't actually believe in Jesus. Not everyone who calls themselves Christian actually is. I believe i posted the Biblical support for this above.

Mageth

So then, it's possible that you're not actually a Christian, though you call yourself one?

One answer you might make would be "Why, no, I KNOW I'm a Christian! I really, really believe in Jesus!"

But then, most if not all of those "Christian" answerers on the census would probably give a very similar answer.