Kapyong

You are NOT discussing.

You ignore posts to you,
you fail to provide any evidence.
You repeat BELIEFS over and over.

Stop preaching.
Start discussing.


K.

Biblo

James claims to have seen Jesus. Read James. Jude said his brother is Jesus. John wrote he was one of the original Apostles and saw him die on the cross and resurrected. Luke was friends with several of the Apostles. Paul said he saw Jesus and knew several of the Apostles who were eyewitnesses.

Superheavy

A serious conversation in a case of a lack of an explanation should end up in "I don't know", not jumping to conclusions. I can't help but wonder - again - why religious people can't handle admitting that they don't know.

Biblo

All I can suggest is read your Bible. Really we aren't making these things up. We are just reporting to you what Scripture says.

Biblo

It's one thing to reject it and another thing to say it doesn't say what it said. We're dealing with both groups of deceived souls here.

fta

Only in a vision (= hallucination)

Biblo

It wasn't a vision because there were those with him who experienced the same voice. So it was objectively given, not hallicinatory. They saw light and Paul saw the person Jesus and talked with him.

Biblo

You can argue against Paul telling the truth, but you can't argue against what he claimed he saw and talked with Jesus.

Kapyong

Gday,

Wrong again.
James does NOT claim to have met Jesus at all!

You've NEVER read James, have you ?


The epistle of James shows the author had clearly never met any historical Jesus :

Now James was allegedly the BROTHER of Jesus,
so
we would expect his letter to be chock-full of personal details about Jesus.

Well,
guess what?

The letter of James only even MENTIONS the name "Jesus" twice in the whole letter.

It has NO personal details at all !
NOT one shred of historical information about Jesus can be found in the letter allegedly from a member of his FAMILY !

The person who wrote the letter of James had OBVIOUSLY never even HEARD of a hisyorical Jesus.

Let examine the letter to see what I mean -


The ONLY 2 places to use the name Jesus are here :

1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are in the Dispersion: Greetings.

The introduction of the letter, mentions he is a "servant" of God and of Lord Jesus Christ (ie. a typical faithful phrase invoking their highest names) - totally FAILS to mention he is brother to Jesus.

2:1 My brothers, don't hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ of glory with partiality.

Another faithful phrase telling us nothing about Jesus. No mention James is his brother.


What DON'T we see in James :

NO mention of Jesus' family at all - NO Mary or Joseph or siblings.
NO mention of the birth stories - NO Bethlehem, Nazareth, Magi, Herod, the flight...
NO mention of teachings Jesus - NO sermon, Lord's prayer, food regulations
NO mention of miracles - NO Lazarus, feeding the multitude, healing the sick...
NO mention of any Gospel event - NO Teaching at the Temple, Temple Cleansing, Triumphal Entry, Temptation, Baptism in Jordan etc, etc...
NO mention of the trial of Jesus - NO Pilate, Sanhedrin, Judas etc...
NO mention of the empty tomb, the crucifixion, the resurrection !!! hello?

I can not find a SINGLE PIECE of information "about Jesus" in the whole epistle of James.

From a person who was supposedly in Jesus' very family and probably would have experienced many of these events if they had really happened.


Even when expected

Even worse, if you do read James, there are many places where you would expect him to mention Jesus or his teaching -

Chapter 1 talks about resisting temptation - NO mention of the temptation of Jesus !

Chapter 2 starts like this in some versions - "do you .. really believe in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ?" (a different translation of the phrase which in the Greek goes something like this: "do not with partiality believe in Jesus Christ the glorious").

Here is James trying to convince them to believe in Jesus Christ, and he totally fails to even mention he knew Jesus, let alone was his brother - instead all he gives to try and prove Jesus is some preaching about the poor and the rich WITHOUT mentioning anything Jesus said about the poor.

James quotes "Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself" - but NOT from Jesus, just "scripture".

James preaches about adultery - NO mention of Jesus' teachings.

James argues that faith without works is useless - when he provides examples, it's from the OT - Abraham, Rahab - NO mention of Jesus.

James reminds people not to curse or speak evil - NO mention of Jesus' teachings on that.

James preaches about suffering and patience - NO mention of Jesus as example, just Job and the prophets.

James talks about the church elders bringing healing and forgiving sins - NO mention of Jesus doing that.

James even invokes Elijah who was a "human being like us" - NO mention of Jesus !


James never knew any Jesus

In dozens of places, James preaches something that CRIES out for a mention of Jesus or his teachings - but it looks like James has never even HEARD of Jesus of Nazareth - just the risen Christ, a spiritual being.


Note that James uses the phrase "my brothers (and sisters)" DOZENS of times - NOT the slightest hint that HE is the brother of Jesus anywhere in the letter.


There simply is NOTHING about Jesus in the letter of James to indicate the writer had ever even HEARD of a historical Jesus.


Once again, Biblo is completely 100% wrong.



Kapyong

badger3k

If you can't account for Tuesday, it must be Spiderman!

See, we can play this game too! It's fun.

Seriously, Biblio, how about dropping this attitude - we know you think we're going to your imaginary hell. So what? Many of us think you're deluded and posting to get credit for DrD or Liberty U, but we don't harp on it endlessly. The "threat" of hell is about as scary to us as the threat of getting coal for Christmas is. Get the idea?

How about providing, actual, you know....evidence? Where (and who) are these "42 writers" (with 1/3 non-Christian) you spouted off about two or three times, without posting any actual evidence for this. You have the mistaken belief that the anonymous gospels were written by those to who they were attributed later, and I bet you don't believe there are any contradictions in any of the accounts (given that you think Habermas is a good source, I feel safe in that assumption).

So why don't you start with something there - give some names of these pagan authors and their writings (in fact, let's make it more historical and limit it to those who might have been contemporary - so we need first century CE accounts, so exclude the ones closer to 150 years - that should make it easier).