Steven Carr

I don't see any violent sedition in what was apparently peaceful protest.

Certainly Jesus was not one to refrain from similar verbal abuse as we can see by Matthew 23 and Matthew 24.

And I don't see why the Tower of Siloam falling on people is an event rife with political machinations......

I still find it amusing that Jews should repent from Maccabean-style revolt when some Christians think accounts of such revolts were inspired by God, and other Christians , like NT Wright, regard some of the people involved as martyrs for God's kingdom.

Johnny Skeptic

There is not reasonable evidence that Jesus said. The claim that Jesus did say that is hearsay evidence that was made by an anonymous Gospel writer. Anonymous or not, there are not any good reasons at all for anyone to believe that Jesus said that.

I do not see anything profound about it at all. Since good things and bad things are often not distributed to those in greatest need, the writer had no choice but to say what he said. God has always favored rich people. They are best able to get away from hurricanes, rebuild houses that are damaged by hurricanes, get better education, get better medical treatment etc. The God as depicted in the Bible, and the God that allows natural disasters, is evil.

Peter Watts

Speaking strictly from what the Bible says, natural disasters were never intended to be part of our world. When man sinned, the whole creation became fallen and death entered the world. God wasn't going to allow sinful, disobedient creatures He made be immortal. Who knows what they would unleash on each other? So death became part of our inheritance because of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden.

That's what the Bible says, anyway — and I'm not defending the Bible, just telling you what it says.

Amaleq13

Where does it say this?

Or are you confusing "what it says" with "what you believe it means"?

Peter Watts

Maybe you missed the part of the Bible where it was addressed. That's easy to do, considering it's only in the second chapter of Genesis.
God tells Adam that the day he disobeys by eating from the tree of Good & Evil in the Bible, he will die — meaning death enters into the world. Death from disease. Death from natural disaster. Death from murder. Death, death, death — it wasn't intended for man until he sinned and showed he couldn't be obedient to God.
I'm not making any arguments, but that's what it says.

Amaleq13

That would be an example of "what you believe it means" rather than "what it says". Thank you for the clarification though you appear to continue to be confused.

The fable depicts God warning them not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or "in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die." (Gen 2:17, YLT) The story also describes another tree that bore fruit that apparently would confer immortality. That Adam and Even had not yet eaten from this tree is indicated by Gen 3:22 where God says:

`Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,'(YLT)

So, contrary to what you believe the text means, the fable clearly implies that neither Adam nor Eve were immortal when they ate from the tree of knowledge. In other words, they would have died.

In addition, there is no suggestion in God's threat that the consequence of death applied to anyone or anything besides them.

I agree you are not making arguments. You are sharing a belief you hold about the meaning of the fable despite the fact it is clearly not what the fable says.

Peter Watts

I know what it says, obviously better than you do, and you're trying to disqualify what I'm saying by questioning my motives.
Just stick with that winning strategy, OK?

Amaleq13

I'm happy to let anyone interested enough to read this thread decide for themselves which of us has presented an example of eisegesis and which has offered an example of exegesis.

That only one actually uses the text is kind of a giveaway, though.

Thomas II

Steve, :huh:

Natural disasters happen because of natural causes. Period.
People die becaue they happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sin has nothing to do with it,just natural events.

Peter Watts

Within the framework of the Bible -- and I'm not promoting it, just telling what it says in the context of this thread -- it's stressed that humans live in a fallen world. It's fallen because death entered the world when man disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden. People will die sometimes in natural disasters, and it has nothing to do with any sin they committed, it has to do with the fact that death entered the picture in the Genesis story and it's mankind's inheritance.
The "death" that Jesus was describing -- and again, I'm not promoting religion, just explaining what it says -- is spiritual death as well as physical death. Everyone dies, but those who die not believing in the Christian message are eternally separated from God.