Freethought & Rationalism Archive

TomboyMom · 04-16-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I wasn't aware of this particular verse. One thing
you'll notice is the present tense. Since evil already
existed before this passage, I doubt that this
refers to original evil, darkness, etc. I'm not going
to get into the original Hebrew word, but that
might be interesting.

You put your right foot around your left ear and rotate slowly. It's called the Christian Pretzel Twist.

Paul2 · 04-16-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I wasn't aware of this particular verse. One thing
you'll notice is the present tense. Since evil already
existed before this passage, I doubt that this
refers to original evil, darkness, etc. I'm not going
to get into the original Hebrew word, but that
might be interesting.

Jesus Dave, circle strife much? I bet you're good at halo, or whatever the hell it is you kids are playing these days.

TomboyMom · 04-16-2007, 03:23 PM

Dave, I think you better leave this forum and go back to wherever you usually hang out where atheists don't actually make you read that Bible you claim to follow.

Ghostdog · 04-16-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip

I beleive in God, But the whole bible is correct and God is just thing has me tottaly confused. For example it was God himself that killed all those innocent children in Sodom and in the great flood. Now he either judged them because of the sins of there parents which to me is not ver Just or loving, or he removed there Free Will which I have been told by many preists God would never do.

Then lets look at Job, God had a bet with Satan:devil1: that Job couldnt be turned to the dark side. Jobs children where killed with Gods blessing

, How is that ok? Then the bible says it is ok because Job got New Children and new wealth etc.

WHAT ABOUT THE OLD CHILDREN?

just a few examples of how God doesn't look to loving and just

Its an example that god doesn't exist, or in the .00000000000000000001% chance that he does, proves hes a mean old bastard. There is absolutely no reason AT ALL that can justify the killing of a child. Like it or not, the biblical god is evil

Ghostdog · 04-16-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I wasn't aware of this particular verse. One thing
you'll notice is the present tense. Since evil already
existed before this passage, I doubt that this
refers to original evil, darkness, etc. I'm not going
to get into the original Hebrew word, but that
might be interesting.

The BS O' meter calls you out on that. Sounds like some kind of Gothic junk.

Biff the unclean · 04-16-2007, 10:37 PM

Never mind Job, what about Noah? In that story God doesn't kill a couple of kids; He kills every child in the world. Every newborn, every toddler, every pre-teen… all of them.
If you believe in God and are a moral person then you must be in opposition to Him.

Queen of Swords · 04-17-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

I wasn't aware of this particular verse. One thing
you'll notice is the present tense. Since evil already
existed before this passage, I doubt that this
refers to original evil, darkness, etc.

I'm not certain what this is supposed to mean. If I pointed out a verse where the biblical god supposedly said, "I commit murder", would your rebuttal be that the first murder in the world was supposedly committed by Cain?

And if the biblical god didn't create "original evil", did "original evil" just spontaneously appear out of nowhere?

Thomas II · 04-19-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Paul2 to Sheshbazzar:

Sorry yo, but I don't buy it. I used to believe in the same God that you believe in now. However, after I read the bible, and not just the parts that they teach in Sunday school, my faith really went downhill.

Careful,Paul...You are speaking to Prince Sheshbazzar...

Ubercat · 04-19-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

You asked for input from a believer, This day, I have set before you the Testimony of Scripture, and my beliefe and reasoning.

It is now up to you alone, to choose what you believe regarding The Elohim of The Ages.
You can choose to accept His words, and the testimony of fellow believers,
Or you can choose to reject The Holy Scriptures, the counsels of The Most High, and the fellowship of the saints, and join yourself to the opinions of these, the non-believers, the mockers, and revilers of all that is called Holy.

As was written many years ago; "By your words you shall stand justified, or by your words you shall stand condemned."

translation: Rape and genocide are wonderful things. Praise da jeebus.

-Ubercat

Gundulf · 04-19-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip

I beleive in God, But the whole bible is correct and God is just thing has me tottaly confused. For example it was God himself that killed all those innocent children in Sodom and in the great flood. Now he either judged them because of the sins of there parents which to me is not ver Just or loving, or he removed there Free Will which I have been told by many preists God would never do.

Then lets look at Job, God had a bet with Satan:devil1: that Job couldnt be turned to the dark side. Jobs children where killed with Gods blessing

, How is that ok? Then the bible says it is ok because Job got New Children and new wealth etc.

WHAT ABOUT THE OLD CHILDREN?

just a few examples of how God doesn't look to loving and just

What about the old children? Isn't an old child rightly called an adult?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

This gets to a more interesting question, considering that if God made the world, and is in control of it, he is responsible for every death that ever happens. I generally don't see people complain that God killed 130 year old people in the flood. And God is thus accused of "injustice." Or lack of love. Or both. Which brings the question:

How long does "justice" demand that God ought to allow someone to continue to live?

In other words, if God had allowed everyone to live until they were 15, could he then be called loving and just? How about 20? 30? 50? 100? 200? 900? 900,000? What exactly is the obliged life span that God "ought" to give us?

What exactly, in terms of life span, does God owe us? If God were to kill the entire population of the world in a flood, but rescue all the children, I doubt this would satisfy your question. Or what if he rescued all the people 20 and younger? or 50 and younger, etc., etc.

Hence, this might be an argument that pulls the emotions, but I don't think this is the real debate. Question is more of, "What right does God have to determine ANY person's life span?"

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04-16-2007, 03:23 PM	#53
TomboyMom Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,931	Dave, I think you better leave this forum and go back to wherever you usually hang out where atheists don't actually make you read that Bible you claim to follow.

04-16-2007, 10:37 PM	#56
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Never mind Job, what about Noah? In that story God doesn't kill a couple of kids; He kills every child in the world. Every newborn, every toddler, every pre-teen… all of them. If you believe in God and are a moral person then you must be in opposition to Him.

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