Originally Posted by Albert Cipriani

For one, there's the parable in the Gospels about the rich man who died and was in a place of torment separated from Lazarus, the beggar, who was in the bossom of Abraham. That was a description of Purgatory, not hell, for the rich man could still communicate with God and did so out of love for his relatives he wished to warn of his fate. Neither love nor the will to pray to God exists in Hell.

Originally Posted by espritch

A parable - a story intended to teach a moral lesson; a story which even the most ardent Bible literalist would not argue as being literally true.

Originally Posted by Albert Cipriani

Right. Atheists don't have the patience for hell. They have utopian ideas that starve people to death here and now.

Hell is a concept that, like a fine wine, takes time. Likewise, to appreciate hell as I now do is an aquired taste. First we can only stomach milk, then Coke, and finally fine wines. Hell is like that. You must first endure a lifetime of injustice to want the kind of justice only hell can deliver. -- Cheers, Albert the Traditional Catholic Who Suspects Most Folks are Going to Hell

Originally Posted by Albert Cipriani

Right. Atheists don't have the patience for hell. They have utopian ideas that starve people to death here and now.

Hell is a concept that, like a fine wine, takes time. Likewise, to appreciate hell as I now do is an aquired taste. First we can only stomach milk, then Coke, and finally fine wines. Hell is like that. You must first endure a lifetime of injustice to want the kind of justice only hell can deliver. -- Cheers, Albert the Traditional Catholic Who Suspects Most Folks are Going to Hell

Originally Posted by spamandham

How do you know this was her actual memory, and not something your own mind created? In the version of the story you described, you saw the scene from a distance, like a third party observer, rather than from the perspective of your grandmother. This is a strong indicator of a false memory.

The entire incident you described might be a false memory created by your own mind and planted therein in response to an emotionally stressful event. It's not uncommon. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just suggesting it as a possibility that should not be summarily dismissed.

I myself have a vivid memory of flying around my backyard as a child. I can't imagine that actually happened. I accept it was actually a dream that my brain routed to my permanent memory.

We have real science that confirms false memories, and no real science that confirms any form of telepathy. It seems the simpler explanation is a false memory created within your own mind, until it is shown that direct brain-to-brain communication at vast distances is a real possibility.

Originally Posted by the alien among us

i'm athiest and belive in a soul and Reincarnation
this does not efect my non-belief in god/s/ess/esses

i am how ever turely sorry for your loss
and hope grandfather has a good next life

Originally Posted by Thomas II

But what about the "I am leaving!..." part of it. That came completely out of nowhere...And it coincided with the exact time of her death. You are saying that it was a pure coincidence. I am saying I don't know...but I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Lógos Sokratikós

Fascinating. Being there no gods, is there any escape from the cycle of rebirth?

Are you optimistic about being reborn into something worthwhile? Is it determined by karma (good guys reincarnate into Vin Diesel, a-holes into cockroaches)? Who or what governs "moira", your fate, are you/we judged by some entity so that can take place?

Thanks for the condolences. Looks like IIDB is full of great folks that look past philosophical differences and can pat you on the back honestly. Cool. Your bear hug is returned gladfully!

L.S.

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux