FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-06-2011, 05:26 PM   #161
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatpie42 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatpie42
Luke certainly claims that his account is a record of history.
Where?
Luke 1:1-10

Quote:
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Did I miss something important? Please let me know.
I can see why you would prefer to employ a translation reading "things that have been fulfilled among us,.."
rather than the long standing rendition; "those things which are most surely believed among us," for support for this particular claim to Luke being reporting 'history'.

From a skeptical and critical point of view, any claims that these reported supernatural events actually happened, or ever were "fulfilled' or 'accomplished' among (them)" is untenable.
While that they were "believed" by the acceptance of 'handed down' reports, to have happened or have been "fulfilled" is entirely reasonable and tenable.

And as the reports of these 'events' are often conflicting in the details given, there is little actual documentary cohesiveness as to exactly what it was that was believed to have happened. IE. Did a voice speak from heaven? (Mk 1:11) or was it simply John the Baptist who said 'this is the Son of God.'? (Jn 1:34) a BIG difference.

Your 'modern' translation is a cleverly contrived revision wrought by Fundy theologians to lend an appearance of a greater degree of textual support for their religious beliefs, than what has long been the understood meaning and translation of this text.

There is a huge difference in meaning between something being "most surely believed among us," and -"things that have been fulfilled among us,.."

Luke writes a orderly account of those things that were most certainly believed by him and his contemporary believers to have been fulfilled or accomplished, -none of whom themselves were actual witnesses to, nor participants in any of the 'events' that they then presently believe in,- through an acceptance of reports which were 'handed down to' them by unidentified earlier others.

The only 'history' that Luke is reporting is that he and his contemporary believers are at the end of a line of 'witnesses' in a religious variation of 'Chinese Whispers'.
Luke is reporting only what it is that he and his -present- group of believers profess to believe to have happened. That is not history.

Present day believers desire to read far more into Luke's report than what was ever actually there.






.
Sheshbazzar is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:56 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.