Not_Registered

After this I give up. It's almost like you have a filter on your computer that distorts everything I say before you read it. You should look into getting some ad-aware software.

It amazes me how you can read the bible and other complicated pieces of literature (probably written by complex philosophers and theologians) and sufficiently grasp all the concepts conveyed and discern the numerous messages delivered in these various works, yet you can't understand a commoner as myself. First I never "claimed" much of anything. By claiming I mean saying something that, in my eyes, is not up for discussion. The only things I did claim are that Mormonism is a foolish belief and that Jesus, although maybe not wise, was not a fool. I never "claimed" Jesus to be wise. I perceive Him to be wise; however, numerous times I have said that others can legitimately see Him not to be wise. I cannot "claim" someone to be wise anyway because the perceiving of wisdom, as I have said, is "somewhat of an intrapersonal perception. It is not definitive or absolute."

Also, I have never said that because someone sees Jesus to be wise, or comes to see Jesus as wise, they should realize that He is "more than a man." NEVER.....NEVER...did I say or imply this. In fact many times (read all my post if you're interested - I'm done saying the same thing over and over) I've said I expect and am okay with people saying "So what" to viewing Jesus as being wise. Even in the quote you gave, Sven, I didn't say that, because of Jesus' wisdom, He was "more than just a man". I've even noted that saying this would make every single wise person a god. That's ridiculous and I'm not saying that. I've said many times that I, and if anybody else does they should too, come to the belief that Jesus is "more than just a man" NOT SOLELY on the belief of Jesus being wise. Therefore, I can't be asking anyone else to do the opposite of what I have done and believe Jesus is "more than a man" based solely on the perception that He is wise.

Then don't. I'm not telling anyone to. I've said this several times. Once again, you should invest in some ad-aware software to get rid of that distortion virus.

Clutch

Not_Registered, what would you like this thread to be about?

You're not claiming that Jesus was wise, but you want to discuss how he was so wise?

You're not claiming anything stronger than that Jesus was not a fool, but you think it worth discussing how his not being a fool is explicable?

You want a discussion of how Jesus "outsmarted all the scholars of his time", but it's somehow irrelevant to this discussion whether Jesus did -- or is even depicted as doing -- any such thing?

Why don't you say, in some straightforward prose, what your point is? This might be easier (for all concerned) than your insisting on what your point isn't.

Not_Registered

Good question. Because I, as of right now, lack an adequate amount of completely-developed defenses for my claim of Jesus being wise I obviously can't debate the issue. At a later time I will probably open up another thread on a similar topic where that debate can take place. So, in regards to Jesus' wisdom, I cannot sufficiently debate the issue. For anyone who still has comments on other issues brought up in this thread, those can be discussed, but I can't think of any worth discussing off the top of my head. So, as for me, I will be ceasing my replies concerning Jesus' wisdom and will cease all my replies, unless someone raises a question which I have not yet answered or someone raises a valid question that is rooted in logic and reality and has some sort of relevance to the original topic. As I hate people wasting my time, I applogize for not being prepared for a full debate on the issue I raised.

Infidelettante

I maintain great respect for honesty such as this. It is difficult to arrive at and more difficult to admit. I don’t doubt that properly prepared you will present us with debates worthy of our time and consideration.

JT

Toto

But on the last page you gave us a sworn statement that you had an argument.

It is completely acceptable on these boards to present an argument that has not been fully worked out, to get feedback and find out what works or doesn't work.

It is rather futile to claim that you have an argument, but not give any hint as to what it is, especially after you have admitted that you like to play around with people's minds and claim things that are not true.

When you come back with your argument, please be prepared to address the following issues:

1. Was Jesus really a humble carpenter? What Biblical support exists? Why are Mark and Matt at variance there?

2. Are the words of Jesus in the Gospels even coherent? Were they meant to be understood by a casual reader?

3. Most people who read the words of Jesus think that he must have been a pacifist and a socialist, or at least opposed to materialism. Do you think these are wise policies? Please be prepared to debate Meryl Streep on the issue (from this TV interview):

Not_Registered

Toto

Shall I take this to mean that you will be considering the 3 valid questions I raised, to which you did not reply?

Please take your time. There is obviously more to this question than you realized. But it is a valid and interesting question, and we can all learn something from it.

Not_Registered

Yes

SLD

It's not you Not_Registered, it's Christianity which is unprepared to answer these questions we've raised. My only beef with you is that you're not prepared to admit that yet. But don't worry, doubt, which I sense in you, is the first step in liberation. Why not become more fully prepared and read a few of the infidel library articles?

Join us. We're actually a forgiving bunch!!

SLD

Sven

I've no idea how else to interpret this conversation:

Not_Registered: The creation of this thread was in the chance that someone might consciously come to a realization based on their belief of Jesus being wise.
Sven: What kind of "realization" do you have in mind?
Not_Registered: I'm glad you ask. A realization that, would not be solely responsible for but instead, could aid in an open-mindedness to the possibility that Jesus was "more than just a man."

But above you indeed say that the the realization of Jesus being wise could aid in an open-mindedness to the possibility that Jesus was "more than just a man." This is essentially the same what you are denying here to have said. This has nothing to do with the question if this realization is the only evidence or not - the fact remains that in your opinion it is evidence which could help to convert people.

Either you are playing word games to get out a hole you dug yourself in or you are contradicting yourself without even realizing it.