No Robots

It is an intriguing hypothesis; but, as I said above, it will tough to document. Who are these Islam-influenced Puritans?

Malachi151

Yeah, I don't buy it. As has been said, Protestantism was greatest in the north, the area least influenced by Islamic ideas. Likewise, much of this had been brewing in Europe for a long time.

#1) People, especially in England, didn't like Catholic political influence and domination.

#2) Since the Middle Ages a growing camp of people said that the Bible was to be taken literally and strictly and that followers should read it directly.

#3) With the printing press it became possible for many more people to read the Bible for themselves, and this alone had a huge effect.

#4) Since there were bad times in Europe, plague and such, and people were reading the Bible, many of them concluded that times were bad because they had strayed away from a strict interpretation and following of the Bible, so the obvious solution was to be more strict and follow God's word more closely.

#5) Corruption in the Catholic Church was obvious, people simply wanted to distance themselves from it.

Clivedurdle

Please remember the Crusades! We have a clearly documented import from the Islamic world - Catharism - that led to a specific Crusade in Southern France.

Why should not Crusaders have brought back Islamic ideas to Northern Europe?

Anyone who got To Jerusalem or nearby did not live their lives in some kind of cordon sanitaire against Islam! They spoke to each other, probably mated, told stories, argued (possibly not over a pint though!) The same is true of Spain.

Robin Hood stories often contain Moorish characters. Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin?

No Robots

No one denies that there has always been cultural contact between Islam and European Christendom. Haroun-al-Rashid even sent an elephant as a gift to Charlemagne! The whole history of medieval philosophy is one of the assimilation of Greek knowledge assimilated via Muslim thinkers. The tough thing, again, is to point to the specific dependence of the Reformation on Islam. It is definitely something worth looking into.

Clivedurdle

It doen't have to be that direct - a series of ideas that support and mesh with puritan aesthetic ways of thinking. Plus the printing press.

dancer_rnb

I really don't think it was Islam per say. Byzantine was weakened as much by invasion in the west, by Bulgars, Slavs and other people out of the steppes, and then wars with the kingdoms/empires they formed. And I think they would also have had wars in the east whether those invaders had been muslim, christian, or followers of some other exclusive god like the mongols were.

premjan

Nowadays I thought protestants say that Jesus is God.

Clivedurdle

Apart from the Crusaders who took some horses to St Mark's Square for example, most Northern invaders actually wanted to partake in the advantages of Rome, but were clumsy and did not have the necessary skills to run an Empire.

Islam is very different - it does impose economic sanctions, creates barriers that were not there previously.

It creates barriers in people's minds - thou shalt submit, thou shalt not think for oneself, thou shalt enslave yourself, women thou shalt be faceless. Mind slavery - the slave mentality.

Protestantism, especially Puritanism - picks up on this - contrast the flamboyant individualism of the Royalists and the dull sameness - whitewash - of the roundheads.

Churches before hand were incredible multi media experiences - the austerity imposed by the destruction of trade, and a mindset of obedience was very damaging.

The alleged examples from the islamic golden age may be understood of the corruption of Islam by the ideas of Rome and Greece.

Steven Avery

There is a degree of truth in this, in the sense that the islamic view was a rejection of Athanasian Creed orthodoxy as pagan. Protestantism may have focused on other elements but there was a similar sense of rejection of RCC and Orthodox paganisms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots anti-Trinitarian ideas of groups like the Nestorians that Constantinople was fighting. The rapid spread of Islam was in large measure due to the oppressive orthodoxy imposed by Constantinople

If there are good articles or books that really look at the issue of islamic rejection of Christian doctrinal orthodoxy I would really be interested in reading the material. Please share away.

Much of the material on this issue id going to be rigged to favor one of two perspectives (orthodox Christian or the islamic rejection). They might be good reads as well, with a bit of filtering.

Shalom,
Steven

No Robots

The only work I am familiar with on this is Draper, which is available online. From there you would have to pick bits out of general histories. I wish I could remember where I read that the Muhammad was just trying to put an end to the Christological disputes.