steve_bnk

He was on the move in the NT, he never appeared to take up permanent residence anywhere pointing to the threats from the Jewish establishment.

Anything is possible. I believe it all points to the existence of an historical person, exactly who or what he was is open to debate.

There was likley a historical Noah who had a watery experince in a flood with family on board. The Discovery Channel had a good show extrapolating who he might of been and settled on a Sumerian trader caught in a 100 year storm. Jewish writers may have adpated the flood saga of their day, but all legends tend to have some roots in reality.



Haven't some of the Homerian locations been identifed?

There was a black African culture claiming to be descendents of the orginal Jewish priest class, and DNA points to an high probablility. Anything is possible.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/israel/familylemba.html

Amaleq13

And I will continue to be so for as long as you continue to engage in false claims and logical fallacies.

Improve your arguments and I won't be.

Yes, that is what I said. You don't respond to problems with your argument, you ignore them.

Yes. Why do you think that is relevant?

No, there continues to be no apparent contradiction between those two claims.

1. The messiah is God's anointed one according to the Hebrew language.

2. Jesus was believed by some to be the messiah.

3. Messiah becomes "Christ" going from Hebrew to Greek.

4. Jesus was believed to be the Christ in Greek.

Tertullian appears to be suggesting that those who believe in Jesus Christ called themselves "Christians" after both the original meaning of the word (they are anointed by God with their faith) and the their belief that Jesus was the Christ.

There continues to be no apparent contradiction with that claim.

Who says he was?

Who said it did?

aa5874

What did you just say? Who or what?

Jesus was a what.

Look at Matthew 1.18 and Acts 1.9.

What was that!

steve_bnk

Frippen in the jim jam!!! For those of us who are not believers, for some JC is pure myth, for others like me I belive there was likley an historical person. By who/what he was iImean radical, revolutionary, pacifist, reformer, ...from waht is in the NT any number of conclusions can be drawn.

aa5874

Claiming that you believe Jesus was an historical person does not eliminate you from providing evidence for your belief.

In the story of Jesus he was a blasphemer, from Beelzebub, not a reformer, a pacifist, a radical or a revolutionary.

Where are you going to get information that show a man was worshipped as God in Judaea after he was executed for blasphemy?

steve_bnk

Obvioulsy no one has 'proof' for anything relating to the bible, other than the believers.

Something happend in terms of a movement that had a deep impression on people, otherwise we would not be having this debate today.



I base my asesment on what I know of history, religion,. and people. You only have to look ate the religious conflicts going on right now to get a sense of the political situation in Judea at the time of JC.

There were a nomber of men who claimed to be the Jewish messiah, some revolutionaries and some simply bandits.The fact that one of them may have been more spiritual in calling people to something other than military rebellion would not be out of the question.

'Give to Ceasar wht is Ceasar's..' as he is alleged to have said would not have out him at odds with Rome.in fact he would likely be appreciated.

JC may be the ultimate Rorschac Test. White Euroeans see blond hair and blue eyes, blacks see someting different.

You appear to have some deep resentment over my views.

What is your take on Haile Selassie? Was Bob Marley a prophet?

aa5874

So, why do you believe Jesus was historical when you have no "proof" of anything?

Now, when I say Jesus was a myth or fictional it is because the extant information supports my position.

1. Jesus was presented as mythical/fictional god/man by the authors of the NT and the church writers.

2. There are only forgeries of Jesus from external sources and even so it was claimed he rose from the dead after three days.

3. If Jesus was just a mere man, no Jew would have worshipped him as a God in Judaea.

4. Jesus did not do anything to be called a Messiah, he never even killed or try to kill a single Roman soldier or asked any Jew to destroy the enemies of the Jews.

5. If Jesus was just a man, then the entire NT and the church writings are just a pack of lies from beginning to end, the historical Jesus can never be recovered.


I have a lot more fiction about Jesus but time is short.

And when did this movement happen? Which century?

I forgot you have no proof of anything.

You have proof something was going on in Judaea at the time of JC?

When was JC's time?

Now, you seem to have proof of JC. I thought you said you have no proof of anything now you know about history, people and religion.

Let's get some proof. Or people are going to start making stuff up just like you and we will be saying Jesus was this, that or the other.

Jesus was fiction and it can be proven. Read Matthew 1.18 and Acts 1.9. Now read about Achilles, the offspring of a sea-goddess, by Homer.


Not all, it is just that I want some proof.

I think Haile Selassie was an Ethiopian and Bob Marley was a Jamaican but I have no proof. You have any documents about them?

steve_bnk

Selassi was the Rastafarian messiah, Marely by some was considerd a prophet.

'Get Up Stand Up', great words. One way to look at the NT if you filter out what may have been added hype, the message of JC may not be much differnt from Bob Marely. Was the heaven and god JC talked about someting inside us and not a deity??

You say we're sick and tired of your poison technology
Slowly, surely, killing all humanity
We know when we understand:
Mighty God is a living man.
You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can not fool all the people all the time.
So now you see the light
We gonna stand up for our rights!

Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, don't give up the fight

Preacher man don't tell me
Heaven is under the earth
I know you don't know
What Jah life is really worth
It's not all the glitters is gold
Half the story has never been told
So now you see the light
Stand up for your rights

Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
Get up, stand up, don't give up the fight

Interestinmg juxtaposition, Christians use the bible to prove JC existed by the fact of it being written, and you use the gospels and interpretation to prove he did not.

aa5874

Some Rastafarians believe in Jesus Christ.

But, Jesus was all hype. There is nothing to filter.

The false prophecies, the virgin birth, the miracles, the transfiguration, the crucifixion, the resurrection, the ascension and his second coming were all hype.

Virtually all of the evidence of fiction about Jesus can be found in the NT and church writings.

To solve a crime one must go to the crime scene even if it was tampered with.

Eusebius in "Church History" goes through "the crime scene" and virtually re-creates the "crime" right before your very eyes. He tells you of virtually every document he used, from Philo to Origen, to come up with the fraudulent book called "Church History".

Amaleq13

Yes, that is how I know you are wrong to claim Justin contradicts himself about the origin of "Christian"

Inaccurate timing doesn't make Tertullian's explanation of the origin of "Christian" self-contradictory.

Assuming and asserting your conclusion does not make Tertullian's explanation of the origin of "Christian" self-contradictory.

No, an incorrect dating of the term does not contradict that origin.