Freethought & Rationalism Archive

greyline · 08-23-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

CAZUZA:
During a show in Canecão ( Rio de Janeiro ), whilst smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said: God, that's for you.

I can't even explain how he died.

He died because he had AIDS, which is a disease. Why can't "you" [the writer of all this claptrap] explain how he died? Yet again, a google search of the key words (Cazuza cigarette god) gives page after page of Christian websites repeating this entire list you've repeated, and no actual source for the statement.

Quote:

MARILYN MONROE:
She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He is a preacher and Evangelist and the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:

"I don't need your Jesus"

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.

As above. Four pages of the same list on Christian websites. No source for the quote.

Carin, I have a serious question for you. When you come across new information, do you ask yourself: How do I know if this is true? It's a really useful way of sorting through the crap.

windsofchange · 08-23-2006, 01:54 PM

Carin, something else occurred to me re: your List o' Dead blasphemers:

You said the car that was wrecked was so badly damaged that they couldn't tell what kind of car it was.

Yet you also said that the boot (trunk) was intact.

Since most cars have a logo on the back of the trunk, and the trunk was intact, why couldn't they just tell from that?

greyline · 08-23-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsofchange

Since most cars have a logo on the back of the trunk, and the trunk was intact, why couldn't they just tell from that?

See, the eggs were in the boot because the kids were going to make pancakes later, when they got the munchies. The milk and flour were on the backseat (which is why there was no room for God). During the crash, the milk bottles and flour bags broke and these ingredients mixed to form a big blob of sticky goop that shot out the broken back window and landed on the logo, thus obscuring it.

windsofchange · 08-23-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyline

See, the eggs were in the boot because the kids were going to make pancakes later, when they got the munchies. The milk and flour were on the backseat (which is why there was no room for God). During the crash, the milk bottles and flour bags broke and these ingredients mixed to form a big blob of sticky goop that shot out the broken back window and landed on the logo, thus obscuring it.

Ahhhhh ... so the milk bottles and the flour bags broke, but the eggs didn't? They must have been Arnold Schwarzeneggs

!

voodoomage · 08-24-2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

So why didn't you personally respond to my own words, (except for the Scriptures I quoted) when I gave my opinion on the original question of the thread, namely : "Did Jesus *have* to die?"

To refresh your memory, here is my answer to that question again:

"I'm sure this has been discussed in detail in this forum, so after reading the above answers, I don't get the feeling that you really want to know or even care, but I may be wrong, so I'm going to give my answer for what it's worth for you.....
The death of Christ was necessary to make the New Covenant. Mt.26:28, "For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remissin of sins" - No covenant was made without blood.
The New Covenant sacrifice brought ETERNAL redemption, because the Old Covenant sacrifices could not remit one sin, but the blood of Christ does. Heb. 9+10 explains it vey well.
Man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Rom.3:28
In Rom 4:17 justificaton faith is demonstrated, and in Heb.11 we see that Christ is better than the Old Testament faith examples.
Heb. 10:16 - 23 ...Where remission of sin and iniquities are, there is no more offering for sin and those believers have boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which He has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh..our hearts are sprinkled from an evil conscience.."
Col.2:14-17; 1 Pet. 2:24

Did you know, voodoomage, that the veil to the entrance of the Holy of Holies was torn the moment that Christ died? It was the symbol of the body of Christ that had to be "torn" to give us access to the Holy of Holies, that means the presence of God, or Throne Room. Only through the blood Christ can one enter. That is also why Christ called Himself "the door."

Before Christ died, only the High Priest could enter into the Holy of Holies in the temple, so the torn veil gives us the assurance that the New Covenant gives all believers in Christ access to that place - the presence of God.

It is very clear right through the New Testament why Christ had to die."

Regards
Carin Nel

I apologize for not responding to your post.

I was aware that according to the NT, the veil was torn. I do not, however, consider the bible to be a reliable source of data however.

Also, your post fails to adequately explain WHY god chooses to accept blood sacrifices like a common tribal deity. It also fails to explain why it must specifically be jesus who died. You merely state that his death brought about the possibility of redemption without explaining WHY it brought redemption.

Anyhow, thank you very much for your original, self-worded post.

Toto · 08-24-2006, 05:28 PM

The discussion of morality and rationality has been split off here in the Moral Foundations forum.

Carin Nel · 08-27-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsofchange

Ahhhhh ... so the milk bottles and the flour bags broke, but the eggs didn't? They must have been Arnold Schwarzeneggs

!

VERY funny!! I deserve all the jokes. You are absolutely right. I should never have used the chain letter as an "example" of "how God operates", because God can speak for Himself. If He says "Do not mock me", He means it, full stop, and neither I nor anybody else need to add to that. I've learnt my lesson. I just hope that you also learn yours (before its too late!!) by not mocking God!

Get it!!?

To voodoomage: Why is blood important do you think?

Regards
Carin Nel

Carin Nel · 08-27-2006, 06:40 PM

It is 3h30 AM! I should have been in dreamland, but found this amazing story of Randall Niles who was a definitive skeptic, critic, cynic and a "practicing atheist” I just could not stop reading about his life journey!
Read about his journey here: http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/my-worldview.htm
Regards
Carin Nel

voodoomage · 08-28-2006, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carin Nel

To voodoomage: Why is blood important do you think?

Regards
Carin Nel

That's exactly what I would like to know. I understand the necessity of blood for our continued physical well-being as a method of chemical transport throughout our bodies, not to mention regulation of pH levels and as a relatively slow method of inter-organ communication, but I fail to understand how that translates into being necessary to sacrifices. Is there perhaps a sacrifice molecule found only in "clean" animals? If so, perhaps chemists could isolate it and genetically modify fruits and vegetables so that god might be more pleased with a non-animal sacrifice. Maybe you could explain it for me better.

Carin Nel · 08-30-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voodoomage

That's exactly what I would like to know. I understand the necessity of blood for our continued physical well-being as a method of chemical transport throughout our bodies, not to mention regulation of pH levels and as a relatively slow method of inter-organ communication, but I fail to understand how that translates into being necessary to sacrifices. Is there perhaps a sacrifice molecule found only in "clean" animals? If so, perhaps chemists could isolate it and genetically modify fruits and vegetables so that god might be more pleased with a non-animal sacrifice. Maybe you could explain it for me better.

"For the LIFE of the flesh is in the blood..." Lev.17:11
You see, everything we want to know is in the Scriptures.
We cannot live without blood. It is the life of the body.
The sacrifice of an animal is to let him bleed to death - to let his life flow out of him. To give his life To sacrifice his life.
It has a deep spiritual meaning for those who care to grasp it. For the synic it will be utter nonsence.
The animal sacrifice was a foreshadow of the sacrifice of Christ for us on the cross where He gave His blood as an atone ment for the sins of the world. He gave His life so that we could live forever.
For us, in accepting His offer for salvation and make Him our Lord and Savior, we must sacrifice our lives by identifying with His death on the Cross.
We must die to our flesh (our old nature), be buried with Christ (be submerced in water through baptism) which means putting away the things of the world, our old life, and resurrect with Him into a new life of victory over sin in His power through the Spirit who dwells in us.
It is much more that just the slaughter of an animal and that's it! It has a long history which runs through the Old Covenant Animal sacrifice) into the New Covenant (after Christ's sacrifice) with a deep and very significant meaning for the believer and definitely not something to be taken lightly.
The blood is very important, and holy, as a person's life is at stake.
You must surely understand that an unclean animal would definately not fit in with the whole spiritual scenario which I just painted? Only a perfect animal could be symbolic of a perfect, sinless Saviour. An unclean animal could not represent a sinless Redeemer.

Regards,
Carin Nel

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08-23-2006, 01:54 PM	#112
windsofchange Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The achingly beautiful San Fernando Valley Posts: 2,206	Carin, something else occurred to me re: your List o' Dead blasphemers: You said the car that was wrecked was so badly damaged that they couldn't tell what kind of car it was. Yet you also said that the boot (trunk) was intact. Since most cars have a logo on the back of the trunk, and the trunk was intact, why couldn't they just tell from that?

08-24-2006, 05:28 PM	#116
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The discussion of morality and rationality has been split off here in the Moral Foundations forum.

08-27-2006, 06:40 PM	#118
Carin Nel Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Africa Posts: 383	It is 3h30 AM! I should have been in dreamland, but found this amazing story of Randall Niles who was a definitive skeptic, critic, cynic and a "practicing atheist” I just could not stop reading about his life journey! Read about his journey here: http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/my-worldview.htm Regards Carin Nel

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