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Old 10-11-2004, 05:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bede
I would agree with Toto. Anyway, given that almost all scholars place more reliance on the sources than Vork would like, it is almost a waste of time his pointing this out.
I think you missed the point. It is not that Stark relies on the sources. It is that he dismisses modern scholars -- with a strawman version of their arguments -- while embracing ancient writings without so much as a raised eyebrow. That's not a good critical attitude toward the sources (or toward fellow scholars). A better method would be to take a more archaeologically-based approach, and rely on what is available from inscriptions, and so forth (which he sometimes does), and place the comments of those like Dionysus in a richer comparative context.

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Rational choice is the only convincing way to explain religious conversion (rather than cultural inertia that can only explain religious commitment you are born with).
Rational choice does not explain religious conversion; and Stark does not claim that it does, at least that I could see. Stark sees it the same way I do, as a social act. You will note that he spends some time establishing the way friendship and similar intimate contact plays a key role. Religious conversion is part of the toolkit dealing with social and in-group identities that the primate H sapiens has for dealing with the behavior of other primates in a complex sociality. That is why the actual content of the beliefs themselves is less important.

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Old 10-11-2004, 10:48 AM   #12
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Stark uses "rational" to describe the choice of a religion based on his assertion that choosing a car or a toaster is a "rational" choice. But I think that everyone who is not a free market fundamentalist recognizes that choosing a car is not a completely rational act, if it is rational at all.
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Old 10-12-2004, 02:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bede
I would agree with Toto. Anyway, given that almost all scholars place more reliance on the sources than Vork would like, it is almost a waste of time his pointing this out. Rational choice is the only convincing way to explain religious conversion (rather than cultural inertia that can only explain religious commitment you are born with). That said, Stark's latest book, For the Glory of God, which I have reviewed, is really quite bad. While I agree with his conclusions he is such a poor historian he probably sets the whole question back.

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Bede
Jeepers. I'm about 1/4th the way through. Should I stop now? What's a better book on roughly the same subject?
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Old 10-12-2004, 03:33 PM   #14
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I'd also suspect that churches themselves acknowledge that selecting religion is not a rational choice. Our church produced statistics (I do not recall the source) that a dramatically large percentage of Xians were converted before the age of 13. If you are not coverted by that time, the odds of become a Xian as an adult drop significantly.

Edit - I found some statistics, see:

http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert.fs/ages.htm
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Old 10-12-2004, 03:55 PM   #15
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I'd also suspect that churches themselves acknowledge that selecting religion is not a rational choice. Our church produced statistics (I do not recall the source) that a dramatically large percentage of Xians were converted before the age of 13. If you are not coverted by that time, the odds of become a Xian as an adult drop significantly.

Edit - I found some statistics, see:

http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert.fs/ages.htm
Stark was examining a different situation than you will find in modern day America. I'm skeptical that Christianity spread to prominence in the Roman empire by birth rate.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:03 PM   #16
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Stark was examining a different situation than you will find in modern day America. I'm skeptical that Christianity spread to prominence in the Roman empire by birth rate.
So am I. I think the numbers he gives are fundamentally unsupportable as well, although his general point, that growth of a given rate will eventually yield huge numbers of followers, was sound.
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