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Old 12-22-2011, 03:32 PM   #21
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...the inferences seem rather straightforward.
Yes, I infer that the stories about Jesus were constructed well after he might have lived, based on midrash of the Hebrew Scriptures and other literary sources.


Not this again. You invented this test. i don't think anyone else follows it.

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... If you are depending on the methods and authority of Bart Ehrman, then I think there is nothing wrong with that: his three criteria are contextual credibility, dissimilarity and independent attestation...
I read Bart Ehrman's bio of Jesus. He never actually addressed the question of historicity - that's waiting for his new book to be published in March 2012. He declined to join the Jesus Project. His criteria just do not stand up as critieria for historicity - contextual credibility is a feature of a lot of fiction, dissimilarity includes the thoroughly discredited criterion of embarrassment, and there are no independent attestations.

But I'm not going to go through all this again. Life is just too short.

Take care.
Maybe I won't have the last word. My methodology borrows from the two most essential criteria of the "Argument to the Best Explanation" (explanatory power and plausibility), which most certainly is an accepted methodology among historians. But, it is not necessary to use that methodology. Just come up with a better methodology of your own. I know that you have a methodology for negative conclusions, but I think you need a methodology of positive conclusions to accompany it, or it is to be expected that you don't have any positive conclusions concerning the historical Jesus. If your methodology of positive conclusions is to depend purely on claims of first-hand reliable written attestations, then I think you need to justify it for a period of history when such a thing is hardly ever available. I think it is inappropriate to strike down all other methodologies on the grounds that there are cases where any single given criteria of those methodologies can not be reliably applied, because we need to make decisions having in mind the whole of the evidence and all criteria.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:46 PM   #22
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....But, I actually specified the "time and place" of Jesus. I know this is ambiguous, and we can get a good idea of our historical expectations if we choose what "time" and "place" we are talking about. If we are very specific with the time and place like I was, then we drastically diminish the number of extant authors, and we are down to only one: again, Philo of Alexandria. If we are generous with our time and place, like you are, then we have a social context of millions of people. One way or the other, it is problematic for your position.
Well, your claim is really absurd.

The Entire Canon was supposed to have been written by contemporary authors.

When did the authors of the Gospels live, supposed disciples and followers of Jesus?

When did the author of the Pauline Epistles live, a supposed contemporary of Jesus and the apostles?

When did Luke the supposed author of Acts and gLuke live, a supposed follower of Paul?

When did the author of the Epistle called James live, a supposed relative of Jesus?

When did the author of the Epistle called Peter live, a supposed apostle of Jesus?

When did the author of the Epistle called Jude live, a supposed relative of Jesus?

When did the author of the "Revelation" live, a supposed apostle of Jesus?



Remarkably, there should have been at least 8 apologetic Contemporary authors for the Jesus story far in excess of YOUR average.

However, it turns out that the supposed Apologetic Contemporary authors, people who should have known of Jesus, claimed Jesus was either FATHERED by a Ghost, was God the Creator, walked on water, transfigured, resurrected and ascended in a cloud.

The Jesus story is probably the biggest lie or mis-representation known to mankind if Jesus was human. And what is even more disturbing is that the very supposed contemporary authors were FAKES themselves.

The Bouazizi story cannot be compared to TOTAL FICTION, both the Jesus stories and its "contemporary" authors.
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