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Old 09-14-2009, 02:19 AM   #41
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What's this thing called political and historical context?
When reading a political and/or religious transcript from the year 2009 between two opposing parties it really helps if you know what the background historical and political context is between the authors.
The political and philosophical context is found in the ideas not the names and dates. It doesn’t matter if it was George Bush making a specific religion the state religion or a Roman emperor 2000 years ago, it’s understanding the ideas behind the act that creates the understanding of Christianity; not knowing the specific names and dates.
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The threat would not be against Rome but against the Emperor of Rome.
How so?
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There is also a possibility that the emperor fabricated a monotheism because he found that he had the power to do so.
If the emperor and "Pontifex Maximus" had the power to sponsor an religious cult of his choosing, even if he fabricated a totally outrageously plain and simple cult which believed in the resurrection of a dead man 300 years ago, and supported this claim with a collection of beliefs that contradict each other, the emperor had the power to "canonise" this religion as being the way to go. The chances for this to have occurred under Constantine increase when we consider that the dominant alliegances in the army were not via the praetorian guard (which Constantine dismissed) but with a troop of key Barbarian (gallic and Germanic) chieftains who continually surrounded the commander. Neither Constantine or his key military chiefs held any alliegance to the old traditions of the Greek empire.
He had the power/ability to promote a certain belief system, not create one on his own. This type of thinking seems more like a satire of the other myther theories based on a lack of evidence than anything that is actually possible.
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The choice was not some vague undated "Roman choice". The choice was made by the grandson of a Danube goatherder called Constantine, around about the year 312 CE, when he and his large barbarian army liberated Rome from its senate.
So you think Christianity is an attack on the Senate by an emperor now, not an attack against intellectualism?

Why did Rome choose a Jewish messiah cult to do this and not a more Roman religion (maybe one that promotes the Caesars instead of combats them) especially if Roman emperors are the ones forcing a supposedly new religion on the people?
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Precisely.
Have a look at the legal loopholes which were opening up and closing as a result of people joining and leaving the Jewish religion in the early fourth century as recorded in the Codex Theodosianus.
At that time Greek intellectualism was not an option. More to point, neither was any Greek religion an option. Hellenism was viewed as a heresy. This becomes explicit by the time of Epiphanius.
I’m not sure the point you are trying to make with the list. It seems like the problem was against superstitious paganism that included sacrifice, not the philosophical schools. Do you have anything that Rome directed specifically at the philosophers or their schools or their teachings? Greek philosophy and Greek paganism aren’t synonymous and the influence on the Jews that made them Hellenized was the philosophical influence not the superstitious pagan traditions.

It’s not Hellenism that is the heresy, it’s denying the resurrection or that faith in Christ is the source of salvation. You can have a Platonic understanding of the universe but can’t deny the resurrection or the salvation via faith in Jesus, claiming Gnosis as the source of salvation.

And again I’m unsure of what you think they thought the threat with intellectualism was or why you think they choose such a non roman religion to become the state religion.
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:26 AM   #42
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And again I’m unsure of what you think they thought the threat with intellectualism was or why you think they choose such a non roman religion to become the state religion.
What would you consider to be, specifically, "non roman" about Christianity, if I may ask?
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:30 AM   #43
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And again I’m unsure of what you think they thought the threat with intellectualism was or why you think they choose such a non roman religion to become the state religion.
What would you consider to be, specifically, "non roman" about Christianity, if I may ask?
It's exalting a Jewish man as the figure of authority that brings salvation.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:48 AM   #44
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What would you consider to be, specifically, "non roman" about Christianity, if I may ask?
It's exalting a Jewish man as the figure of authority that brings salvation.
A Jewish man given up as a ransom to the Jewish god, to be more precise.

Still, that alone is not a specifically "non Roman" idea.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:00 AM   #45
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I don't know what you consider Roman about the story other than they appear in there as an antagonist.

Your "ransom to the Jewish god" is just a particular interpretation.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:18 AM   #46
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I don't know what you consider Roman about the story other than they appear in there as an antagonist.

Your "ransom to the Jewish god" is just a particular interpretation.
Not my interpretation, the originators' interpretation.

The story sits much better as a Roman story then as a Jewish one.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:30 AM   #47
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Not my interpretation, the originators' interpretation.
Which "originators'" interpretation are you speaking of specifically?

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The story sits much better as a Roman story then as a Jewish one.
Feel free to support that claim.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:09 AM   #48
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Not my interpretation, the originators' interpretation.
Which "originators'" interpretation are you speaking of specifically?

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The story sits much better as a Roman story then as a Jewish one.
Feel free to support that claim.
Paul.


Christianity reduces Yahweh's greatest creation to sin.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:32 AM   #49
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Paul.
Where or how did you come to this interpretation of Paul?

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Christianity reduces Yahweh's greatest creation to sin.
Where is this idea coming from also and what makes this a Roman idea?
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:01 AM   #50
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Paul.
Where or how did you come to this interpretation of Paul?

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Christianity reduces Yahweh's greatest creation to sin.
Where is this idea coming from also and what makes this a Roman idea?
Paul states the reason for the ransom rather plainly.

As far as the second goes, let's do it this way.

What does Paul think about flesh?
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