JEST2ASK

Thank ou for your response (to my question)
From your link Yet, history reveals that not one of these men, who knew Jesus personally, ever denied their testimony about Him despite the threat and reality of imminent death. This proves to any fair-minded observer that these men possessed an absolute unshakable personal knowledge about the truth of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Each of the apostles were called upon to pay the ultimate price to prove their faith in Jesus, affirming with their life's blood that Jesus was the true Messiah, the Son of God, and the only hope of salvation for a sinful humanity.

Yet it also contains this disclaimer ...
Most of our information about the deaths of the apostles is derived from early church traditions. While tradition is unreliable as to small details, it very seldom contains outright inventions. Eusebius, the most important of the early church historians wrote his history of the early church in A.D. 325. He wrote, "The apostles and disciples of the Savior scattered over the whole world, preached the Gospel everywhere."

Quite a difference from th details of names, methods and places listed ...

My biggest question however is regarding
also referenced :http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/h...ostles-faq.htm

Who is this person why is no first name or details given

Th additional site I found does contain something else of interest :
This is a bit longer than I intended (I apologize) and you are more than likely overwhelmed with the volume, diversity and depth of questions raised ... so I thank you for your time, efforts and attitude ...

EarlOfLade

Blaah blaah

Why can't you answer?

This was nothing but blabber.

JEST2ASK

Kissing Hank's Ass ... IMO perfect analogy especiall the Buns & Weiners without condiments :devil:

Lucretius

Pure hearsay he allegedly said this and it was written down a long time after his death by someone who never met him at all
IF you truly think that "Blessed are those who believe without seeing, the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs." If you need proof before you believe, then God will not grant you your request then what was the point on Jesus re-appearance to the Disciples after his death ?
Surely by providing them with physical evidence of his resurrection & therefore "proof" his divinity that would mean he the Disciples (Thomas in particular ) would not be going to Heaven,wouldn't it?

tonan22

In my only other post in this thread, here, I explained to you why your idea above (bolded) is invalid. You ignored it. I guess its easier that way for you.

OldYgg

I think I missed something, but where is it documented in your religious documents that he went to hell, rescued the sinners and brought them up to heaven?

And if he did it once, why shouldn't he do it again?

I would rather live longer, be more knowledgeable and secure a long wonderful future for humanity than live in some stagnant irrelevant heaven. Humanity is my first priority and its future and the future of my children. Gaining enough points to go to heaven is a repugnant idea for me, and someone willing to die so I can go to heaven is even more repugnant. If he existed and that is what he died for and he's the son of god I'd really rather have nothing to do with it. An eternity in hell or an eternity in heaven, really makes no difference to me. Each is equally as pointless as the other - simply different halves of a coin that has no value.

Humanity can grow, have better lives and learn more. Ultimately, our learning will transform us in to different beings that may no longer even be humanity. The humanity I want is not circumscribed by a few thousand years as god's plaything or his bet with Satan.

If one accepts this mythology they accept a service and limited existence and a destiny as a a part of a version of nothing - a pointless existence.

Old Ygg

OldYgg

There ya go - the explanation to it all. The reason people can believe in god is that they count the blessings from god but don't blame him for anything when ultimately it (if it exists) is responsible for everything.

Ite pretty easy for you to say count your blessings, are you missing any limbs?

Did Jesus have an easier or harder live than someone that was born with no arms and no legs?

What about the countless people alive now who live in constant agony for years before they die? Did they suffer more or less than Jesus?

Or is it that Jesus did the suffering that made it special?

Old Ygg

OldYgg

Well, I suspect that the vast majority of people on this site do not believe in a historical Jesus and certainly do not believe in all his attributes.

Most people write well and get across their ideas understandably. So, I'd say that factually we are not morons. It is, in fact just an insult. An insult that he repeats from his source material - the first article link that he sent across.

He has been taught that people are morons that do not accept a historical Jesus - who knows how many times. It shouldn't be surprising that when he comes he and finds that most of us don't believe that Jesus was a historical figure or everything about him that he should repeat that statement toward us.

He's been programmed and has responded within his programming appropriately.
Old Ygg

OldYgg

Yes, god, would be far more acceptable if he had the sense of humor of a Douglas Adams. It would seem god lacks the ability to work an audience with a few jokes to get them to relax before getting down to serious matters.

Of course, god can't make jokes (if it exists). Jokes come from experiencing suffering - either as the subject or as an observer. God, i suspect, doesn't have the perspective to understand humor or suffering.

Old Ygg

ziffel

An excellent point, and I'd like to add that he didn't just appear to the disciples, but to over 500 people, according to the myth story.

My question then would be -- if Jesus could provide such excellent proof for those people, why not for the rest of us? He even walked around doing magic tricks for them, walking through walls and shit like that.

Nevermind that he refuses to authenticate himself anymore (hard for the dead to do, I grant you), but if he lives, couldn't he at least honor the promises he made regarding prayer?

John 14:12-14

Nope, Jesus can't be bothered to do one single thing tangible to authenticate this outrageous story. Instead we get very ill-equipped Christians tasked with convincing the unbeliever with such wonderous evidence like "the calendar", and irrelevant bible verses, and "I heard a song on the radio that my dad liked"

To quote the great singer, Peggy Lee -- "Is that all there is?"