outhouse

yet no money ever reached a collector in the fable.

did a fish really get caught with money its mouth, study history a little more and find out where this comes from if you want to get closer to the truth, even if it lies in mythology.

Montgomery Scott

Well, according to the story (which I am not convinced is real, just going on with the story at hand) the elders of the Jewish faith found Jesus to be a threat to them and the social order, out of the many crazy guys in loin clothes trying to get a following. They wanted Jesus out of the picture. Jesus wrecked the sellers outside the temple in a rage, for which the religious leaders got a cut. Jesus proclaimed himself to be the Messiah with a BIG following, per the Loaves and Fishes tale. According to the Bible (unless I am wrong), there were about 5,000 people present to hear Jesus speak. Now how 5000 people could even hear Jesus speak is beyond me, even if they were all seated in a circular place.

Jesus was not an unknown in the high councils of the Jewish heirarchy. He had followers, or at least listeners in the thousands. He was very known and feared and this is why they wanted to rid themselves of him. Herod thought Jesus was a harmless fool, but did not want to rock the boat with the people and turned it over to the Romans. Herod was a lackey of the Romans, but did not want to draw the ire of the Jewish leaders. One nice thing about being a lackey is that they can bump things upstairs and that Herod himself can "wash his hands of the whole affair".

When the Scribes went to Pilate, his first response was "Yeah, whatever man." In the end, the Romans wanted no more trouble than they have to handle and allowed the Jews to take care of it themselves under their laws.

Basically Herod and Pilate passed the buck back to the Jews. They did not want to fool with it and let the Jews handle it, while making them innocent of the outcome. Pretty common human theme. Their sin in eternity is that they did not stop an unwarranted execution, even though the execution was foreordained by God for the salvation of humanity. These humans had no free will in the matter, they are just playing a role that God meant for them to play when He wrote the play. This is what the Universe is to God, a Being who lived forever before and will live forever after, a one hour TV show. The actors saved from hell get to live in the after party of forever, while the bit actors bbq in hell. This is a common theme in Judeo Christianity, God made thus and this happen and although he did, the actors are responsible when they were only following a script that could not be altered.

For some reason (it makes the story that much of a story) the Romans brought out Barrabus, a killing, immoral, evil murderer against Jesus and the Jewish crowd chose Barabbas to be freed and Jesus to death. Can't say that Jesus was not well known to the region to have a big crowd out there sealing his fate.

AdamWho

There is the issue with the northern tribes who were tree worshipers. Odin (Woden) was 'crucified' on the world tree, went to 'hell' and returned with greater wisdom.... and the name 'All Father'.

I would be curious if the writers of the new testament where influenced by these northern myths when they fashioned the gospels.

sotto voce

So would they have allowed Jesus to live if God had not commandeered their minds and their bodies?

jdboy

But the collectors are not demanding payment. Look at the story:
Matthew 17:24-27
New International Version (NIV)
The Temple Tax

24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
25 “Yes, he does,” he replied.

When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own children or from others?”

26 “From others,” Peter answered.

“Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him. 27 “But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

The text is actually telling us that even though jesus considers himself a child of a king he will pay the tax. Now who is it that pays the taxes? The others. Those that are not from royalty pay taxes.
The fish and the coin is poetically saying when you catch a fish take it to market sell it for coins and take some coins out to pay the tax.
That's what i see. Or the fish could symbolize the "others" jews that have to pay tax and to steal it from the others. But we can see from the text that jesus does not even want to appear offensive.

jdboy

Well i think it was jesus barabbas that was crucified. This became too obvious once the text was widely distributed.
Barabbas was released as the Romans agreed to do but he was released after he was crucified. Josephus records that the Romans would throw the dead bodies of the rebels over the wall.
The poetic version is that jesus suddenly appeared thru a wall. And of course a dead body tells no lies confirmation for the doubting thomas that they killed Barabbas then released him.

outhouse

it says no such thing.


jesus knew he was a poor peasant from Galilee


correct and upon study you would see he is playing the middle of the road so he doesnt get arrested right then and there under questioning.

But one thing is certain, he never pays and puts those questioning him off.