Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vagabonder · 02-16-2007, 10:33 AM

Thanks everyone, the links and information was very useful. I just sent him off an e-mail in response. When searching around the internet, I came across this nugget. Scientific Accuracy of the Bible Check out #12 for where he may have got his ideas about sterlization.

I know Cereus, it's pretty ridiculous, but that's what 9 years of reinforcing one's belief does to someone, they see things that aren't really there.

Cheers

post tenebras lux · 02-16-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagabonder

Thanks everyone, the links and information was very useful. I just sent him off an e-mail in response. When searching around the internet, I came across this nugget. Scientific Accuracy of the Bible Check out #12 for where he may have got his ideas about sterlization.

I know Cereus, it's pretty ridiculous, but that's what 9 years of reinforcing one's belief does to someone, they see things that aren't really there.

Cheers

That's weird (to me, anyway). your link seems to be claiming that Genesis is accurate but in the same sentence claims that Job is the oldest book in the bible.

What? Job was written before Moses got round to writing his 'five books'? :huh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Scientific Accuracy' blah blah

4) There is reasonable evidence that the scriptures speak of dinosaurs. As should be expected, this evidence comes from Genesis, the book of origins, and from the book of Job, generally believed to be the oldest book in the Bible.

First, Gn 1:21 speaks of God creating whales on the fifth day of creation. The Hebrew word translated here as whales is generally translated dragons. It is translated as monsters once, whale(s) twice, serpent(s) thrice, and dragon(s) 21 times.

Second, Job's statements concerning the behemoth (Job 40:15-24) might be referring to dinosaurs. Its tail is compared to a cedar tree. Its strength, and apparently its bulk, is in its loins. It is said to be the chief of the ways of God, and is described as having the ability to drink up a river. No modern animal meets this description in all points.

Third, Job's description of the leviathin (Job 41) very much resembles a dinosaur. Some would dismiss this description as fictitious because the leviathin is described as breathing fire; however, some creation scientists believe this could have happened. The creature would merely need glands to produce a chemical which would combust when exposed to air. The bombardier beetle does in fact have this ability. The fact that nearly every major culture of the world has traditions about such dragons lends yet further credibility to the possibility of their existence in the past.

Coragyps · 02-16-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

The creature would merely need glands to produce a chemical which would combust when exposed to air. The bombardier beetle does in fact have this ability.

Bombardier beetles have graduated from smelly steam to n-butyllithium now? Far friggin' out! It's evolution!

post tenebras lux · 02-16-2007, 10:57 AM

I knew someone would like it if I included the longer quote.

lpetrich · 02-16-2007, 07:29 PM

Let's see about Biblical medicine...

The Book of Leviticus has some purification rites associated with some mysterious skin disease, and it uses the same word for mildew as it uses for that disease.

The Gospels portray Jesus Christ as an exorcist, driving out lots of demons, and they hint that his followers can also learn how to do that. Jesus Christ is also described as performing magical salivary therapy, just as Roman Emperor Vespasian had reportedly done.

Barefoot Bree · 02-17-2007, 08:19 AM

Actually, let's try this up in BC&H. Those folks really know their bible verses; they should be able to track down the blood stuff in no time.

Hot potato!

Malachi151 · 02-17-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

12) It was not until this century that medical science had a full understanding of the fact that most diseases are caused by infection of microscopic organisms. Accordingly, the medical values of sterilization, sanitation, and quarantines were virtually unappreciated. Yet the Bible is so replete with such wisdom that time and space are not sufficient to cover them in paper such as this.

Wrong. This is the major problem here. In fact all of this stuff was very well known until the Christians took power. The ancient Greeks and Romans had very sophisticated medical practices, they had hospitals, sterilization techniques, advanced surgery, etc.

Just check this out for example:

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu...nstruments.cfm

When people say "these things were unknown..." yadda, yadda, what they really mean is these things were unknown from the time of the Dark Ages until modern times. In reality most of this stuff was well known before the Dark Ages. In fact, that's exactly where all of the Biblical and Koranic wisdom claims comes from, because those books incorporated, in a very crude way, some of the basic knowledge of the day, which was in fact well beyond anything during the period from the Dark Ages through to modern times.

B Cereus · 02-17-2007, 11:17 AM

"12) It was not until this century that medical science had a full understanding of the fact that most diseases are caused by infection of microscopic organisms. Accordingly, the medical values of sterilization, sanitation, and quarantines were virtually unappreciated. Yet the Bible is so replete with such wisdom that time and space are not sufficient to cover them in paper such as this."

Yeah, right. Besides what Malachi151 said, the examples that were provided would be amusing parodies except that people really believe in this:

"This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days. And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean. And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days. - Num 19:14-16"

So, seven days is long enough for all microbes, parasites, and other disease organisms to die? Doesn't work that way for the smallpox virus, whose stable shelf life on fomites is well-documented. Doesn't work that way for the anthrax bacterium, which forms spores that can survive indefinitely. And what if the man died from malaria? You can't get malaria from touching any bodies or objects.

"And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be. - Lev 13:45,46 "

Another example of the fact that this disease and disease process were misunderstood. Leprosy (Hansen's disease) has a prolonged incubation period, progresses slowly, and has a low transmission rate. Keeping people separate was probably as a response to the appearance of people with the disease, but they didn't really need to be isolated for health reasons.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-16-2007, 10:33 AM	#11
Vagabonder Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 585	Thanks everyone, the links and information was very useful. I just sent him off an e-mail in response. When searching around the internet, I came across this nugget. Scientific Accuracy of the Bible Check out #12 for where he may have got his ideas about sterlization. I know Cereus, it's pretty ridiculous, but that's what 9 years of reinforcing one's belief does to someone, they see things that aren't really there. Cheers

02-16-2007, 10:57 AM	#14
post tenebras lux Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Republic and Canton of Geneva Posts: 5,756	I knew someone would like it if I included the longer quote.

02-16-2007, 07:29 PM	#15
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Let's see about Biblical medicine... The Book of Leviticus has some purification rites associated with some mysterious skin disease, and it uses the same word for mildew as it uses for that disease. The Gospels portray Jesus Christ as an exorcist, driving out lots of demons, and they hint that his followers can also learn how to do that. Jesus Christ is also described as performing magical salivary therapy, just as Roman Emperor Vespasian had reportedly done.

02-17-2007, 08:19 AM	#16
Barefoot Bree Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: East of ginger trees Posts: 12,637	Actually, let's try this up in BC&H. Those folks really know their bible verses; they should be able to track down the blood stuff in no time. Hot potato!

02-17-2007, 11:17 AM	#18
B Cereus Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: ADV Rider Posts: 1,020	"12) It was not until this century that medical science had a full understanding of the fact that most diseases are caused by infection of microscopic organisms. Accordingly, the medical values of sterilization, sanitation, and quarantines were virtually unappreciated. Yet the Bible is so replete with such wisdom that time and space are not sufficient to cover them in paper such as this." Yeah, right. Besides what Malachi151 said, the examples that were provided would be amusing parodies except that people really believe in this: "This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days. And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean. And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days. - Num 19:14-16" So, seven days is long enough for all microbes, parasites, and other disease organisms to die? Doesn't work that way for the smallpox virus, whose stable shelf life on fomites is well-documented. Doesn't work that way for the anthrax bacterium, which forms spores that can survive indefinitely. And what if the man died from malaria? You can't get malaria from touching any bodies or objects. "And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be. - Lev 13:45,46 " Another example of the fact that this disease and disease process were misunderstood. Leprosy (Hansen's disease) has a prolonged incubation period, progresses slowly, and has a low transmission rate. Keeping people separate was probably as a response to the appearance of people with the disease, but they didn't really need to be isolated for health reasons.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.