Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mageth · 06-14-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llyricist

Actually, at that time in Judaism, every man was considered a son of God. Nothing extraordinary in that claim at all.

And that would be quite a different claim than "I'm God in the flesh".

Faith · 06-14-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

where exactly did Jesus say he was "God in the flesh"?

Jesus said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father, that He is in the Father and the Father in Him. He also said that He is the only way to the Father, that by knowing Him, we know God...and henceforth ye know Him and have seen Him. Not an admission that He is "God in the flesh", but a defining statement nonetheless. Jesus was speaking and acting on God's behalf.

Quote:

what I do not believe is what other people claim Jesus was (or is).

Then do you believe what Jesus claimed about Himself in John 14:6-7?

greenbear · 06-14-2004, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth

Even if ... So what?

Quite lucid for a muddleheaded peer of the realm.

Mageth · 06-14-2004, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Jesus said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father, that He is in the Father and the Father in Him. He also said that He is the only way to the Father, that by knowing Him, we know God...and henceforth ye know Him and have seen Him. Not an admission that He is "God in the flesh", but a defining statement nonetheless. Jesus was speaking and acting on God's behalf.

That's what some of the writers of the bible claim, anyway. And he could do that without being "God in the flesh".

Quote:

Then do you believe what Jesus claimed about Himself in John 14:6-7?

That's an example of what other people claim he was (or claim he said). And Jesus' stronger claims of divinity in John are suspiciously absent from the other Gospels, which were written first; John was written last, after the doctrine of the divinity of Christ was more fully developed.

And do you believe what Jesus said in John 14:10? "...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

truthie · 06-14-2004, 09:20 AM

Since many of you discard religions completely, do you also refute religious wisdom?

As much as I reject religions, I still can’t stop acknowledging the fact that Jesus Christ (whether he existed or not, don’t care) Allah, Buddha and others that some of you refer as crazy or liars did yield good teachings.

T.

Queen of Swords · 06-14-2004, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truthie

Since many of you discard religions completely, do you also refute religious wisdom?

Depends on what the wisdom's like. If it's the kind of religious wisdom that says, "a woman is not permitted to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent", for instance, I can do without it.

TySixtus · 06-14-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Jesus said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father, that He is in the Father and the Father in Him. He also said that He is the only way to the Father, that by knowing Him, we know God...and henceforth ye know Him and have seen Him. Not an admission that He is "God in the flesh", but a defining statement nonetheless. Jesus was speaking and acting on God's behalf.

Then do you believe what Jesus claimed about Himself in John 14:6-7?

Thereby, you are assuming that what's written in John 14:6-7 is true. Prove it.

Ty

Faith · 06-14-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

That's what some of the writers of the bible claim, anyway. And he could do that without being "God in the flesh".

Granted.

Quote:

That's as example of what other people claim he was (or claim he said). And Jesus' stronger claims of divinity in John are suspiciously absent from the other Gospels, which were written first; John was written last, after the doctrine of the divinity of Christ was more fully developed.

Yes, and there is no point in debating claims. We will never agree.

Quote:

And do you believe what Jesus said in John 14:10? "...the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

Yes, that's why I said Jesus was speaking on God's behalf.

Faith · 06-14-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TySixtus

Thereby, you are assuming that what's written in John 14:6-7 is true. Prove it.

Ty

No, I am saying I have faith that it's true. As such, I can't prove it.

John the Non-Baptist · 06-14-2004, 10:14 AM

Isn't it about time for Gospelog to come back and say that since he's not getting through to people, he's going to take his ball and go home?

"But if just one person wants to have an intelligent conversation, I'll stay..."

06-14-2004, 09:20 AM	#25
truthie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: arizona Posts: 464	How is it among the non-theists? Since many of you discard religions completely, do you also refute religious wisdom? As much as I reject religions, I still can’t stop acknowledging the fact that Jesus Christ (whether he existed or not, don’t care) Allah, Buddha and others that some of you refer as crazy or liars did yield good teachings. T.

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06-14-2004, 10:14 AM	#30
John the Non-Baptist Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Des Moines Metro Posts: 935	Isn't it about time for Gospelog to come back and say that since he's not getting through to people, he's going to take his ball and go home? "But if just one person wants to have an intelligent conversation, I'll stay..."

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