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Old 03-06-2012, 09:19 AM   #21
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Unfortunately, circumcision was common among Canaanites, so it was pointless for the Hebrews to adopt the practice as some way of separating themselves.
Circumcision was not the same for Israelites as it was for others. It was reminder, or should have been reminder, of Abraham, the father of the nation, who was told to undergo circumcision after he had been justified as righteous by his faith. Circumcision was a reminder of the promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel), the nation's respected patriarchs, and a reminder of the necessity of believing Yahweh, absence of which was egregious in the wilderness.

'"The Lord set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is chosen today. Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."' Dt 10:15-16

Bodily circumcision was soon allied to the concept of circumcising one's heart, which meant taking a realistically humble view of oneself. So a gentleman had constant reminder of his proper relationship to his god, though of course no-one else could normally see the evidence of this relationship. Of course, circumcision of the 'heart' was completely invisible, except by one's actions and attitudes. Circumcision among other nations tended to give entry to higher social classes, while, in the Israelite scheme of things, the Abrahamic version reminded of access to the highest class of all, a royal nation.
Theological retrojection. The explanatory rationales were invented long after the practice had taken hold, and via way of 'scripture' compositions were retrojected into imagined and mythical past, which in fact they had played no part in at all.
For what reason?
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:28 AM   #22
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Why do apologists manufacture new 'explanations' for the contents of old texts every day?

Before the texts were set in concrete, it was easy to retroject, to edit, and interpolate latter invented theological explanations into earlier documents, where they did not originally appear, and had never even been thought of.
Of course this also serves well to bolster the pretension that their imaginary Gawd had a secret 'plan' all along.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #23
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Why do apologists manufacture new 'explanations' for the contents of old texts every day?

Before the texts were set in concrete, it was easy to retroject, to edit, and interpolate latter invented theological explanations into earlier documents, where they did not originally appear, and had never even been thought of.
Of course this also serves well to bolster the pretension that their imaginary Gawd had a secret 'plan' all along.
What 'plan' was this?
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:13 AM   #24
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Whatever plan they want to make up.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:22 AM   #25
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What 'plan' was this?
Ask any Christian, or rather inquire of the 'Christian' doctrines and dogmas of any 'Christian' denomination.

Not as though I and others have not been reading the content your many posts in these forums, where you have repeatedly supported the idea that your Gawd has been involved in carrying out some 'plan' that allegedly began in the Garden of Eden and is incorporated into every text in your Bible.
Why then try to play stupid when you have already exposed the cards in your hand so many times?
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:34 AM   #26
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What 'plan' was this?
Ask any Christian, or rather inquire of the 'Christian' doctrines and dogmas of any 'Christian' denomination.
So Christians retrojected, to edit, and interpolate invented theological explanations about circumcision. Remarkable.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:14 PM   #27
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It was kind of putting a crimp in the conversion business.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #28
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What 'plan' was this?
Ask any Christian, or rather inquire of the 'Christian' doctrines and dogmas of any 'Christian' denomination.
So Christians retrojected, to edit, and interpolate invented theological explanations about circumcision. Remarkable.
Don't try to get clever. it only makes you look worse.

No, I didn't say, nor even imply that 'Christians' ever had any hand in the composition of these ancient Jewish TaNaka texts.
(although it can be shown were Christians have, in many cases presented corrupted 'translations' of ancient Hebrew texts to fabricate bogus Christian 'proof' texts. -but that is not a consideration in the point at hand)

No, all of the redaction and editing of these TaNaKa 'circumcision texts' was the work of the Jewish Priesthood and its scribes, and was accomplished before 300 BCE.
The practice of circumcision had been around from before recorded time, the ancestors of the Hebrew peoples had been doing it long before there ever was a Hebrew.
The task of the much latter evolved Jewish Priesthood (circa 500 BCE) was to invent an explanation that explained and justified the old practice.

Or to use your own words "Bodily circumcision was soon allied to the concept of circumcising one's heart, which meant .."
"soon allied" is a tacit admission that the practice preceded these latter evolved Jewish explanatory insertions into their older 'uninformed' writings.
The only question actually being is how 'soon' is 'soon'.

Certainly any 'Abraham' would have practiced circumcision, but just as certainly it would not have originally been founded upon these latter Jewish evolved theology apologetic explanations for the practice.
The Torah stories are just that, made up Jewish 'just so' origins tales having little to nothing at all to do with any historical realities, although latter Judaism and the usurper X religion depended upon believing and propagating these fanciful Jewish tales as being accurate historical accounts.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:34 PM   #29
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What 'plan' was this?
Ask any Christian, or rather inquire of the 'Christian' doctrines and dogmas of any 'Christian' denomination.
So Christians retrojected, to edit, and interpolate invented theological explanations about circumcision. Remarkable.
Don't try to get clever. it only makes you look worse.

No, I didn't say, nor even imply that 'Christians' ever had any hand in the composition of these ancient Jewish TaNaka texts.
(although it can be shown were Christians have, in many cases presented corrupted 'translations' of ancient Hebrew texts to fabricate bogus Christian 'proof' texts. -but that is not a consideration in the point at hand)

No, all of the redaction and editing of these TaNaKa 'circumcision texts' was the work of the Jewish Priesthood and its scribes, and was accomplished before 300 BCE.
How is this known?
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:37 PM   #30
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I suggest you study.
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