stuart shepherd

One of the themes of the Resurrection story is that by dying and supposedly resurrecting from the dead, Jesus freed you from your sins.

The following verses by Paul outline the argument concerning how Paul preached that Jesus' death and resurrection freed you from your sins.

My contention is that according to the Hebrew Scriptures, the Old Testament, Jesus COULD NOT die for your sins.

Christians believe that Jesus died for their sins.

The popular Christian belief is that all men are sinners.
The wage of sin is death.
So all men are condemned to die for their sins.
But Christians believed that by dying in place of all men,
Jesus redeemed all men from the condemnation of sin.
Jesus ransomed all men from death, who accept the gift of grace from God.

IMO, according to the Scriptures in the OT, it is impossible for a man to die for another man’s sins. It is impossible for a man to redeem or ransom another man from God’s condemnation of death.

Allow me to show you from the Scriptures.

No man can redeem the soul of another. Not with riches nor with anything else, even his own life.


Everyman shall be put to death for his own sin. Jesus cannot be put to death for your sin.

Do not slay the innocent [Jesus] because God will not justify the wicked. [sinners]


This verse may be a little difficult to understand from the King James Version so I will quote from other versions making it easier to understand.


No man condemned to death by God for his sins, can be ransomed or redeemed. He must be put to death.

Scripture cannot be broken. According to the OT, Jesus could not die for your sins.

If according to Scripture, Jesus could not die for your sins, then this exposes the motive for Jesus' supposed resurrection as being totally false.

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd

The Miracle of the Resurrection

When Christians embrace the supposed resurrection of Jesus from the dead, they are embracing a miracle. Only through the power of God, if there is a God, can a human being be restored to life after being dead and in the grave three days and three nights. Such a supernatural event would have to be a miracle from God and Christians claim to believe the miracle of Jesus rising from the dead with all their heart, all their soul, and with all their mind, and with all their strength.
That is their assertion. But is that the truth? Do Christians really believe in their God’s power to perform miracles?

Lets examine this question more closely by looking in the Bible.

James preaches what I call “The Christian Health Plan”
If you are sick, you only need to call the Elders of your church, let them pray for you and anoint you with oil. You pray, confess your sins, and YOU WILL BE HEALED.

You don’t need physicians, bottles of pills, Medical Insurance, Copays and hospitals.
Just rely on the miracle healing power of God Almighty.

It sounds so simple that I wonder why Christians don’t call the Elders when they are sick, but keep on calling doctors?

But we all know the truth. Christians claim to believe in the resurrection and God’s miracle power because right now, today, they are not risking anything to believe.
But for a Christian to believe in “The Christian Health Plan”, when he is sick, requires the Christian to risk his life and well being.

Based on the fact that Christians buy Medical insurance, pills, and visit Doctors and hospitals when they are sick, and reject “The Christian Health Plan”, demonstrates that though Christians claim to believe in the resurrection of Jesus, they deny the power of God, and are full of doubt.

Stuart Shepherd

Legal Disclaimer…..The author of this post does not endorse or recommend “The Christian Health Plan”.
Using the “The Christian Health Plan” can result in serious injury, illness and even death. Don’t be a moron, see a competent health care provider immediately if you are sick.

stuart shepherd

THE EMPTY TOMB

When trying to prove that Jesus was resurrected, Christians have always relied on the empty tomb as proof that Jesus was resurrected.

If a body were missing from a mortuary, would you assume that miraculously the dead body was resurrected and the deceased had gone on his way? I seriously doubt it.

My cousin, Kathy, moved to California, and wanted to move the body of my uncle from a cemetery in New Jersey to one in California close to where she was now residing. She went through a lot of legal haggling and eventually secured a court order to move the body. When they dug where the body was supposed to be, the coffin and body were missing. You may have read about this in your newspaper when my cousin sued. My family jokes about Uncle Ed being resurrected, and my Aunt Peggy claims she saw him in the stands while watching a football game on TV, but nobody seriously believes that he is walking around somewhere wearing the new suit he was buried in.

Yet this is the type of evidence that Christians present to prove that Jesus rose from the dead.

Don't you expect extraordinary evidence to prove extraordinary claims?

Or do you believe that Jesus and my uncle Ed are alive and hanging together at football games

stuart shepherd

~M~

Even if I grant you this, it is irrelevant because it has no actual bearing on the historical evidence of the resurrection. Unless these people are historians, then the epistemic basing of their belief that the resurrection occured is irrelevant.

It's not relevant at all. the historical evidence for the resurrection could be compelling, but yet for whatever reason, a portion of christians do not recognize it. Maybe such Christians have not seen the evidence or maybe they possess irrational beliefs for not believing. Blah blah...

What Sean wants to argue for is an appeal to authority, but just because they are christians does not make them an authority.

Roland

Excellent points. One can also tell that Christians really don't believe in the power of miracles in that they would never even consider praying for an amputee to grow a replacement limb. They won't utter that prayer because, deep down inside, they know it will never happen and that the whole miracle thing is all just a lot of hooey.

stuart shepherd

Dear~M~,
Your opinion is noted. After the debate is over, perhaps you can ask Sean for an explanation. So hold your questions for Sean.

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd

[QUOTE=Roland;5162093]Dear Roland,
I am pleased that you agree with my post.
Did you read And The Graves Opened Up and The Saints came Tumbling Out.
Is back about 6 posts on this thread. It's one of my favorites.

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd

The Ignorant and Superstitious of New Testament Times

In New Testament times people were very ignorant and superstitious.

In reading through my Bible, I have noted that the people of New Testament times, believed that human beings were Gods, and that human beings could return from the dead.

Let me show you what I discovered..........

See how easy it was for the ignorant and superstitious people of New Testament times to believe that a person was a God on very meager evidence?
It certainly cheapens any claims that the man Jesus was a god.

But look at these Scriptures.........

It amazes me how easily they could believe that Jesus could be a man who died long ago and returned from the dead.


Even the leader of a country was dumb enough to easily believe that prophets could return from the dead.

My point is that in New Testament times, people were ignorant and superstitious and believed that people were Gods and that people could resurrect from the dead on the basis of very little evidence and lots of faith in the supernatural.

As I was proof reading my post, I realized that people haven't changed much in 2000 years. Even today, some people believe a man is a god, and that people can rise from the dead, on very little evidence.

Stuart Shepherd

Roland

[QUOTE=stuart shepherd;5162381]Many great points. Also, it rather robs Jesus of his uniqueness that first Easter weekend. I mean, if people all over the city are being reunited with their dead loved ones, what's so remarkable about the apostles meeting up with Jesus that day?

Steven Carr

James, so Christians , tell us was the sceptical brother of Jesus, who converted to Christianity.

I saw somebody playing find-the-lady in the street yesterday.

I was very sceptical of the game's fairness. These things are always fixed.

The brother of the dealer was also sceptical. He told his brother to pack in his cheating games, and stop trying to con the public.

The dealer told his brother to try a few hands , just to see how fair it was.

The brother played a few times, and won.

'You have turned over a new leaf', said the brother. 'It is all fair and above board.'

The conversion of the brother from a sceptic to a believer convinced the crowd that this card game was fair, and that the dealer was not cheating.

Really, claiming that a family relative was initially sceptical, but converted is the oldest trick in the book!

As all religions are started by frauds and liars, why should the 'conversion' of James be given any more credibility than the plants in the audience of a crooked card game?