Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Angra Mainyu · 10-15-2006, 09:41 PM

And what about other species?

There were only two of most of them… and how could they reproduce fast enough before being eaten by the remaining predators (if there were carcasses left by the Flood, I guess they would rot and become inedible for many of the predators relatively soon).

There are so many problems with the Flood, that it’s amazing how they still believe it. But then again, that could be said about many other fables.

QRUEL · 10-16-2006, 12:08 PM

how did other ethnicities come out of 8 people from the same race ?

and then get scattered all across the globe ?

jakejonesiv · 10-16-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ima_realist

Hi all, i'm new to this site. It's great to be able to see so many like-minded people and I look forward to some really good debates here.

Anyway, the thing that initially brought me here was an exchange I was having with a fundamentalist Christian on another forum. I proposed that the main problem behind the Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark storys is the idea of in-breeding. Surely the offspring resulting from Adam and Eve's children's copulation with the only other available humans, each other, would be crippled by physical and mental deficiencies. If not in the first few generations then soon after. I doubt we could have lasted longer than a hundred years or so, nevermind however long believers think we have been around.

He didn't really have answer other than that they might have been 'perfect genes' and that there was no mention of it here. I was just curious as to why it hasn't been mentioned before, or has been mentioned that much that no-one bothers to talk about it?

HI ima-realist!

The Intelligent design folks don't maintain that all genetic variation existed in the first creation. Instead, God created a molecular process by which the cells themselves could create variation "purposely, i.e. not random mutation.

Creation Science :down: explains that God programmed into the cell the process by which the cell purposefully edit genes, creating new alleles whenever necessary.

See Genetic Variability by Design.

It's useless to talk with these people. They will just invoke a Deus ex machina any time they get in a bind.

Jake Jones IV

Ima_realist · 10-16-2006, 01:57 PM

Hi jake, I wholeheartedly agree with what you just said. It IS impossible to debate with these people and it hurts my head trying. They just don't want to see the truth and therefore they won't. I can't blame them though. I'd rather believe, as they do, that I am going to heaven rather than face the black abyss that in reality awaits us all! *sob*

You'd have thought that their whole 'purposeful mutation' spiel would be undermined by the horrible fact of life that is birth defects. I'm no biologist but I always thought they were un-beneficial random mutations. Hardly the work of a loving God. Those with them don't tend to survive (or didnt before modern science) hence the mutation doesn't get absorbed into the gene pool. It also works the opposite way aswell i'd imagine, with positive mutations making us what we are today. Survival of the fittest and all that...

They probaby have an answer for that aswell, if all else fails, blame Satan!

hatsoff · 10-18-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

IIRC, population genetics suggests a minimum of around 200 humans is required to provide the necessary variation to ensure the survival of the species.

Can you please elaborate?

Amaleq13 · 10-18-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

Can you please elaborate?

Without attempting to retrace my research steps, no. It is my recollection of studies I read a couple years ago.

excreationist · 10-27-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki

....The arguments that refer to the "perfect genetics" of Adam and Eve do not "hold water" (sorry for the pun) because Noah and his descendents are the ones who populated the earth after the flood. Since they were born "after the fall" of humankind, the perfect gene argument is not valid.

Not saying I believe in it, but by perfect genes just means they're not carrying thousands of recessive(?) genes that cause problems including eyesight problems. These could just accumulate over time and don't need to be present from the beginning.

Joan of Bark · 10-27-2006, 10:15 PM

Has no-one here ever heard of miracles? Obviously God stepped in whenever necessary to prevent birth defects. You see, the world is perfectly logical -- and when it's not, a miracle can explain it.

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10-15-2006, 09:41 PM	#11
Angra Mainyu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 7,588	And what about other species? There were only two of most of them… and how could they reproduce fast enough before being eaten by the remaining predators (if there were carcasses left by the Flood, I guess they would rot and become inedible for many of the predators relatively soon). There are so many problems with the Flood, that it’s amazing how they still believe it. But then again, that could be said about many other fables.

10-16-2006, 12:08 PM	#12
QRUEL Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 121	how did other ethnicities come out of 8 people from the same race ? and then get scattered all across the globe ?

10-16-2006, 01:57 PM	#14
Ima_realist Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sunny England. Posts: 12	Hi jake, I wholeheartedly agree with what you just said. It IS impossible to debate with these people and it hurts my head trying. They just don't want to see the truth and therefore they won't. I can't blame them though. I'd rather believe, as they do, that I am going to heaven rather than face the black abyss that in reality awaits us all! sob You'd have thought that their whole 'purposeful mutation' spiel would be undermined by the horrible fact of life that is birth defects. I'm no biologist but I always thought they were un-beneficial random mutations. Hardly the work of a loving God. Those with them don't tend to survive (or didnt before modern science) hence the mutation doesn't get absorbed into the gene pool. It also works the opposite way aswell i'd imagine, with positive mutations making us what we are today. Survival of the fittest and all that... They probaby have an answer for that aswell, if all else fails, blame Satan!

10-27-2006, 10:15 PM	#18
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Has no-one here ever heard of miracles? Obviously God stepped in whenever necessary to prevent birth defects. You see, the world is perfectly logical -- and when it's not, a miracle can explain it.

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