Adora

Correct.

hinduwoman

If you go to Islamic board you will find that most muslims on the board seem to believe that Islam is special and deserve to rule and one day it will rule thanks to Allah.
Any deviation from such thought is to be condemned.

IsItJustMe

hinduwoman and Kosh3,

I don't disagree with anything you said, but:

Most of the attitudes or problems you identify with Islam exist as well in some strands of Christianity. There are many Christians who want to bring about a Christian conquest of the world. I am sure you have heard of Cortes and Pizarro, for instance, but there are modern Christians, such as Falwell or Robertson who are of the same view.

Christianity historically has been VERY anti-woman. The older Christian sects, such as the Catholics, the Orthodox and the Copts still do not allow women preachers. Many Christian sects preach the "submission" of women to their husbands, and some even preach that a man has a right or a duty to beat his wife. Christianity has not dealt with harems and erections I think mainly because it is anti-sex, but I am not sure whether this is, on the whole, good or bad.

Many modern Christians, as you say, are Christians one hour a week. But this is not true of Eric Rudolph and others like him who have blown up abortion clinics, killed doctors, and even bombed the Atlanta Olympics (wtf?!) in the name of Jesus.

So, I would say that the problem with Islam in comparison with Christianity is that Islam is taken much more seriously by more people than is Christianity today. I cannot comment as well on Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., simply because I do not know them as well, but I would venture a guess that much the same is true of them. I believe that Hindu fundamentalism has played a major role in certain recent outbreaks of violence in India, for instance.

P.S. Hinduwoman, may I ask whether you are currently a Hindu, or whether you just mean you were raised in that religion?

Thomas II

I don't see any muslims saying that they disagree with you...In fact,do you see any million muslim march AGAINST Islamic fundamentalism??
Shouldn't THEY be terribly offended that those fanatics are disgracing their religion and the name of their god ?? Is it not what they do AGAINST islamic religious values? Are the good people of Islam too afraid to stand against their own fanatics?
I heard on the news today that most of the guys who blow themselves up are from Saudi Arabia...What the heck is the deal with the Saudies??
These people DON'T WANT democracy in their neck of the woods.
They don't want their status quo changed in any way.
They don't want women to have democratic freedoms.
They like the Medieval structure of rich feudal lords and poor ignorant peasants.

Thomas II

Whatever those christians do bad, these fanatic muslims do much worse...
Cut peoples heads on TV??
Blow themselves in the middle of a crowded mall??

It seems like a Yahweh from the Bible deja vu all over again...

lenrek

This is a sad fact...

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...27#post2410827

IsItJustMe

Oh, Christians don't do that stuff anymore, maybe, but they sure used to. I mean, not TVs and malls, since those weren't around yet, but their 15th century equivalents, anyway. And some Christians still do stuff that is just as bad. Ever hear of a group called the Lord's Resistance Army? They are fighting to impose the Ten Commandments in Uganda, and apparently part of their strategy involves capturing young women and keeping them as sex slaves. They are as bad a bunch as any you will find.

And, anyway, I'm not at all sure that the actions you describe are worse than, say, bombing Nagasaki, shock and awe on Baghdad, funding the death squads in Colombia (very into chainsaws, those guys, and possibly cannibalism as well). All of these are done under secular banners, and all are very, very nasty. How about the Rwandan invasion of the Congo? Not particularly religious, but it has led to cannibalism, famine, disease, and the loss of some 4 million lives, and it has at least the diplomatic and probably actually the financial support of the U.S. government.

Richard Nixon was a kind of a fallen Quaker, I guess, and not really too religious, but he was a co-conspirator in the Pakistani (Muslim, it's true) genocide in Bangladesh, one of the uglier moments in 20th century history, though one of the less known.

Yes, Muslims do horrible things, as do Christians and as do atheists. But I'm not sure the horrible things done even by such a nasty regime as the Saudi government are worse than those done by many secular, enlightened first world governments. I'm sorry to say it but I think there is a strong element of jingoism and prejudice that goes into the contrary judgment.

That is, the problem you cite is a combination of three things:

Religion being taken seriously (specifically Islam but it could equally be Christianity)
War, including unconventional war
Your perception making "the other" seem worse, basically only because they are "the other"

I don't see anything to suggest that there is anything in the doctrine of Islam which particularly contributes to the problem, the more so since Islam doesn't have any single, fixed coherent doctrine, but admits to being divided into two major sects, the largest of which is in turn divided into seven major schools, and does not admit to, but in fact is, changing constantly as the world changes, and the major moral teachings of which date only to about the 13th or 14th century when the hadith were written.

pretheism

Has anybody thought about the influence of customs too?
Lack of education in Arab countries, culture and traditions?
I see that all religions have issues and there are always flaws on religious scriptures.
But I would not categorize Islam itself as a religion indulged in fanaticism.
Or a religion that does not allow people to think.
Does anybody remember the impact of the Moors in medicine and science before the Renaissance?


For example..look at Hinduism...some dumb people hold the idea that a religion that venerates female deities would be/is nicer towards women. However, in India, many women still get the end of the stick.
This is not due religion itself, but culture.

RussianM3_dude

Why would Muslims be against Islam conquering the world? They stand to benefit. They are no more opposed to the idea, then us to spread of democracy and humanistic values around the world.

Dharma

yes, it's called self defense...I'm not sorry if Hindus take a violent stand against the Islamic "pinky and the brain" attempts to conquer the world. Hindus and Buddhists even when they had great power, NEVER went beyond their own borders or cultures through war and conquest.

So no, you are quite incorrect in trying to equate Hinduism and Buddhism or Taoism with the likes of Christianity and Islam and their violent history and attempts to destroy indigenous cultures and peoples in their attempt to convert people. Anyone who would think that is a :Cheeky: