Duvduv

So you mean to say that the authors of the Quran intentionally left out any mention or condemnation of Paul/Bulus, the epistles (and even Peter/Boutrous) and left open to interpretation exactly what the real "Injil" referred to if it wasn't to anything in the canonical NT despite the fact that they seemed to have acquired the nativity from Matthew??
If their focus was specifically on the trinity and nothing else, it would almost appear that they acquired whatever they knew about Christianity second-hand and not directly from any books.
I would almost say the same thing about references to the Jewish Bible, since not only are certain elements confused (i.e. Mary as the Miriam the sister of Moses), but many suras show familiarity with the Midrash Rabba and Pirkei de Rabbi Eliezer, which they most certainly would have only heard in story form and not read first hand.

mrsonic

when it says "he forgives whom he will and punishes whom he wills" isn't that qur'anic theology telling readers that god is not DEPENDANT on deeds the christian god did to himself? isn't that saying something like "you don't need 4*4 planks of wood for god to forigve you?
if it has beef against idol worshippers using thier idols to reach god ,you think it will be happy with the bull s hit that you need a cross to remember how god allowed his meat/flesh to get drubbing by the romans? i told you already that koran DOESN'T like intermediaries , blood and wood don't reach god according to the koran. human good deeds have HIGH status in the koran. "belive and DO GOOD deeds..." it seems to me qur'aan is INDIRECTLY attacking pauline theology.

it says god doesn't have a co-equal . "and there is no equal to him"
in trinity you have 3 equals 3 gods.

qur'aanic authours were not happy with christian theology, i think they were agreeing with the jews.

sotto voce

The trinity? Surely 1 ≠ 3 ?

But the Qur'an's focus is not on polytheism dressed as monotheism. Its focus is on monotheism revealed through deity manifested as man, Immanuel or Son. The Qur'an perversely and absurdly takes the latter word to mean son, which is both blatantly misrepresentative and easy to ridicule.

Whether examined from point of view of its absurd, self-defeating provenance, from its total absence of meaningful theology, from its internal contradictions, from its chaotic literary presentation (if that's the right word), from its baneful practical outcomes everywhere it has had influence, the Qur'an is worthless per se. Its sole value is to point up its social role of opposing Christianity because of the credibility of that faith in the eyes of its authors and its devotees. Indeed, Islam is the one major religion (by population) of whose scripture it can be said has the sole distinctive of the simple, flat, unsupported contradiction of another. That is, contradiction unsupported by either historic fact or theological rationale. The Qur'an has all the inherent significance of a pulp paperback romantic novel, the vast bulk of whose copies are remaindered. Like the pontifications of the Vatican, it's interest comes from the fact that it is treated otherwise.

Huon

4. An-Nisa The Women. Translation Muhammad Pickthal.

mrsonic

the qur'aan authours were aware of the crucifixion narratives, i think.
the arabic word is

azani

like something from thier minds /their thinking.

Duvduv

Then what this reflects is that the authors of the Quran pick and chose what they believed to be the "truth" about Jesus, i.e. something from Matthew, something from the Gospel of Barnabas, and thereby leaving the idea of the "Injil" to be rather unclear.

On the other hand, they did not specifically single out any parts of the canonical NT for condemnation, i.e. GJohn or the epistles or Paul by name. This is what gives me reason to wonder whether their entire understanding of Christian texts was merely second-hand and with no actual examination of the original texts, which MUST have been available in Arabia.....

Duvduv

I stand corrected. The Quran makes no mention of Joseph or the nativity as it appears in the canonical gospels. Mary is alone when she gives birth to Jesus.
Thus the question becomes even more interesting that the authors of the Quran did not even use the canonical texts as references.
http://answering-islam.org/authors/m...arpenter1.html
Presumably had the authors heard the nativity story second-hand they would not have neglected to mention the gospel details or some of them. Indeed, Mary is here called "Sister of Aaron". So is this a second-hand account with errors or a deliberate mistake? Plus, it's one thing to reject Christian doctrines in the Quran, and something quite different to present the virgin birth without a betrothed husband of Joseph at all. This is something quite novel.

Huon

The Quran contains a reference to a Miriam (Mary) sister of Moses and Aaron, and daughter of Imran. There is a confusion between this Miriam, and the other Miriam, mother of Isa (Jesus).

Huon

There were originally three settlements of the Jews in Madina namely those of Banu Qainuqa, Banu Nadir, and Banu Quraizah.

Battle of Badr (624 CE – 2 AH)
Expulsion of the Jews of the Banu Qainuqa (624 CE – 2 AH)
The Battle of Uhud (625 CE – 3AH)
Expulsion of the Jews of Banu Nadir (625 CE – 3AH)
Battle of Khandaq (the Trench) (627 CE – 5 AH)
Campaign Against the Jews of the Banu Mustaliq (627 CE – 5 AH)
End of the Jews of the Banu Quraiza (627 CE – 5 AH):
(Quran 033.026)
And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.
Over two hundred male Jews were executed.
About six hundred Jews comprising women and children were sold as slaves.
Operations Against Banu Sa'ad and Banu Bakr
About a hundred miles from Madina on the route to Syria was an important settlement of the Jews called the Khyber. Literally "Khyber" means a fort.
Battle of Khyber
Battle of Hunain
The siege of Taif


It seems that there were very few Christians in Arabia. Probably Muhammad knew them through the sayings of the Jews.

Duvduv

However since Mohammed was a caravan driver to Syria, he would have met Christine. But again, any Jew who knew the gospel story of Jesus knew that Mary was involved with Joseph. This is not an obscure detail.
Nor is it an obscure detail that Mary was not Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses .....
On the other hand who says that the Quran was actually written by Mohammed anyway?