Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cass256 · 10-05-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

The literalistic nature of transforming text into reality is this post's undoing.

for you.

spin · 10-05-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass256

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

The literalistic nature of transforming text into reality is this post's undoing.

for you.

As you have nothing other than the text, unfortunately, you can't get past it, so no, for you as well.

cass256 · 10-05-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

As you have nothing other than the text, unfortunately, you can't get past it, so no, for you as well.

No, it is YOU, who have no text you can get beyond. Not me..

Chris Weimer · 10-05-2005, 06:14 PM

You, no you, no you. Quit the bitchin and produce some evidence.

cass256 · 10-06-2005, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

You, no you, no you. Quit the bitchin and produce some evidence.

Quote:

82 John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

83 John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the SERPENTt in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Quote:

9 Hell from beneath is moved1 for thee to meet2 [thee] at thy coming:2 it stirreth up31 the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up52 from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak4 and say4 unto thee, Art thou also become weak27 as we? art thou become like8 unto us?

11 Thy pomp is brought down90 to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread93 under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen1 from heaven, O Lucifer, 3213 54 son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down8 to the ground, which didst weaken6 the nations!

13 For thou hast said1 in thine heart, I will ascend4 into heaven, I will exalt55 my throne above the stars of God: I will sit4 also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend4 above the heights of the clouds; I will be like101 the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down93 to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see6 thee shall narrowly look55 upon thee, [and] consider113 thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble,56 that did shake56 kingdoms;

17 [That] made1 the world as a wilderness, and destroyed1 the cities thereof; [that] opened1 not the house of his prisoners?

18 All the kings of the nations, [even] all of them, lie1 in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast90 out of thy grave like an abominable12 branch, [and as] the raiment of those that are slain,7 thrust through30 with a sword, that go down6 to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.94

20 Thou shalt not be joined4 with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed14 thy land, [and] slain1 thy people: the seed of evildoers56 shall never 5769 be renowned.11

21 Prepare54 slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise,4 nor possess1 the land, nor fill1 the face of the world with cities. 5892

22 For I will rise up1 against them, saith7 the LORD of hosts, and cut off52 from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith7 the LORD.

23 I will also make1 it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep43 it with the besom of destruction,53 saith7 the LORD of hosts.

24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn,8 saying,2 Surely as I have thought,14 so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed,1 [so] shall it stand:4

25 That I will break2 the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot:4 then shall his yoke depart1 from off them, and his burden depart4 from off their shoulders.

26 This [is] the purpose that is purposed7 upon the whole earth: and this [is] the hand that is stretched out7 upon all the nations.

27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed,1 and who shall disannul55 [it]? and his hand [is] stretched out,7 and who shall turn it back?55

28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

29 Rejoice4 not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote56 thee is broken:8 for out of the serpent's root shall come forth4 a cockatrice, and his fruit [shall be] a fiery flying35 serpent.

m

Quote:

22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

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17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.

18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Quote:

Chapter 4

1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
cometh
burn

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

4
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
send 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

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11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
law Luke 16:16

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

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19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

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2 Kings 1:8 And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

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1 Matthew 3:4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

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Zechariah 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a hairy garment to deceive:

CJD · 10-06-2005, 06:00 AM

Um, a little commentary might help clarify whatever it is you are wanting to say, cass256.

gregor · 10-06-2005, 06:05 AM

CJD
You missed it. See the "m" about mid-post.

Dharma · 10-06-2005, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass256

m

A-HA! A parabola -- nay, the formula for the slope of the line = m!

:rolling:

Dharma · 10-06-2005, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Actually, if you knew the background the figure like a son of man is in origin Baal as portrayed regarding his battle with the sea (Yam) in the Ugaritic literature, not just 'some immortal "heavenly King"'. It's been transmogrified in Daniel, but it's a the literary background.

Nevertheless, one like a son of man is not a son of man. There is no reason to believe that the figure is human except in form (ie he ain't a regular guy, but looks like one), as in the other cases where the figues are of the form of animals, but there is no reason to believe that the writer was saying that they really were animals.

spin

I would have to disagree -- here is someone arguing it is closer to the Babylonian myth of Enuma Elish:

http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doctwo/gardner.htm

http://www.jcu.edu/Bible/200/Readings/EnumaElish.htm

Frito · 10-06-2005, 10:25 AM

Just a quick thought on this thread. I am not a bibilical scholar by any means, so beat me down if this is totally off mark.

I recently heard that a few of a messanic figures of the Christ era claimed to be Seth reborn. Is it possible that taking into account these messiahs into the gospels, the phrase Son of Man was used. Or is this not the son of Adam, Seth, but a different one.

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10-05-2005, 06:14 PM	#114
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	You, no you, no you. Quit the bitchin and produce some evidence.

10-06-2005, 06:00 AM	#116
CJD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: greater Orlando area Posts: 832	Um, a little commentary might help clarify whatever it is you are wanting to say, cass256.

10-06-2005, 06:05 AM	#117
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	CJD You missed it. See the "m" about mid-post.

10-06-2005, 10:25 AM	#120
Frito Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: East Lansing, Michigan Posts: 203	Just a quick thought on this thread. I am not a bibilical scholar by any means, so beat me down if this is totally off mark. I recently heard that a few of a messanic figures of the Christ era claimed to be Seth reborn. Is it possible that taking into account these messiahs into the gospels, the phrase Son of Man was used. Or is this not the son of Adam, Seth, but a different one.

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