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07-03-2008, 09:34 AM | #1 |
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Revelation and the second coming
Does Revelation speak of an hj?
When it talks of Jesus coming does it actually talk of Jesus coming again? What is the timeline of theology about the second coming? Why did xianity get into end of the world stuff? Is it an import from elsewhere? |
07-03-2008, 12:07 PM | #2 |
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I guess it depends on your interpretation of 12:5. Chapter 12 seems to be describing a heavenly vision--the woman gives birth to her son, in the heavens--the son is then taken up to God (in a higher heaven, presumably). So, technically there is no first coming in Revelation. And if Revelation was in fact first written around 70CE, then it also predates the gospels.
However...the heavenly visions are all metaphors for earthly events. The dragon is Rome, the woman presumably a representation of either Israel or of some smaller sect within Judaism...her flight to the wilderness might be the flight to Pella of the early Jerusalem community within Christianity...etc. So the question is: what is the earthly parallel of her son? IMO, this suggests that the gospels were an attempt to answer that question. But what do I know. |
07-03-2008, 03:11 PM | #3 |
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Isn't it from Zoroastrianism originally? Where the prince of light would triumph over the prince of darkness and the good souls would be saved and the bad would be punished for 3 days and then saved, or something to that effect. But that in the period that followed the Babylonian exile, this end of the world concept (eschatology) became more and more a subject of religious speculation, culminating around the time of the turn of the era with the rise of the Roman empire and its occupation of Palestine.
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07-03-2008, 03:26 PM | #4 | |
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07-03-2008, 03:39 PM | #5 | ||
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Infact, isn't eschatology itself the basis of Christianity? That the so-called "good news" to be spread, the Gospel, is that God had provided a means for salvation for when the world was going to an end soon? |
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07-03-2008, 04:12 PM | #6 | ||
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Cesc, here is a page from Mary Boyce's book Zoroastrianism (or via: amazon.co.uk) that I scanned for use on another board. The phrase preceding the word "fundamental" is "gradually many of Zoroaster's. . . " I wasn't going to scan a whole other page for that, though. Quote:
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07-03-2008, 04:52 PM | #7 |
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Minimalist, thx, that was precisely what I had in mind. The whole end-times savior thing sounds abit familiar...
The concept of Satan probably also evolved out of the "evil adversary" from Zoroastrianism, I've read. And numerous other things we know from the Bible. |
07-04-2008, 09:56 AM | #8 | ||
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The classic xian view of history is smelling extremely fishy. |
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07-04-2008, 10:31 AM | #9 | |
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By the way, Cesc, it's a pretty good book and I highly recommend it. One thing though is that Zoroaster is dated to c 1500 bc and the idea of judgment after death appears in the Egyptian pyramid texts from a 1,000 years earlier. Of course, we are absolutely certain that there was trade between Egypt and Central Asia during the Old Kingdom because of lapis lazuli from Afghanistan being found in Egyptian tombs. It would be easy to argue that religious syncretism was alive and well in the Middle Bronze Age. |
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07-05-2008, 11:31 AM | #10 | ||||
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The whole of Christianity is very fishy Quote:
The whole Christian idea of "baptising for the dead" shows a clear parallel with Zoroastrianism, imo. Btw, doesnt Paul say they should baptise for the dead so they will be resurrected and also be saved come judgement day, along with "us who are still alive"? Clearly implying that judgement day is imminent (like Jesus implies also if I remember correctly), but thats its no problem because God has formed and executed a plan with his Son taking on all the sins for everyone. If you take out the judgement day element of Christianity what have you then got left? And since the world never did come to an end that was one spectacular divine failure of a plan, n'est-ce pas? Nobody was saved and the world continued to be exactly as depraved and immoral as ever. |
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