Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hjalti · 06-21-2011, 03:50 PM

All good translations of the bible mention cats already in Gen 1:1 :P

mountainman · 06-22-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juststeve

Lions are mention in the 22nd Psalm if you read it in Hebrew.

Steve

Lions are mentioned a handful of times in the Bible--let's not forget Daniel in the lion's den--but I presume the topic is focused on small domesticated cat breeds, not wild cats.

We should not forget that according to the Acts of Paul, which Tertullian himself tells us was written out of love for Paul, it may be indeed an historical fact that Paul baptized the same talking lion in the wilderness that saved him in the colosseum. Such is the raw untamed nature of the "Born Free" christian story. I dont think that there is any part of it which was born free of bullshit.

Toto · 07-18-2012, 10:08 PM

i still have not found a satisfactory answer to this burning question. But I have found

Greek and Roman Household Pets

Quote:

During the first century A.D. the housecat was occasionally found in Italy, according to passages in Seneca¹⁸² and Pliny.¹⁸³ We know that both the Greeks and the Romans kept snakes and weasels in their houses as protection against mice,¹⁸⁴ but these were gradually supplanted by the domestic cat, in the second to the fifth century A.D. The cat is much cleaner than the weasel; furthermore, the latter animal emits an unpleasant odor which does not make it a suitable house-companion. It is true that the fabulists, writers of epigrams, and artists all treat of the cat's evil designs on pet birds, but the weasel is no better in this respect. Indeed, the cat can be broken of this habit much more readily than the weasel. For this reason the cat supplanted the weasel and the house snake in the fight against mice and vermin.

. . .

It would seem, then, that the introduction of the cat into Greece and southern Italy took place towards the fifth century B.C. This period was exactly the time when Egypt was opened definitely to Hellenic commerce.²²² China and Egypt were the two centers of domestication of the cat in antiquity,²²³ and we are led to conclude that Egypt was the source of the cats which passed over into classic lands,²²⁴ perhaps through the agency of traders from Cyrene. They did not, however, attain the immediate popularity which we might expect; it seems that they remained rare and exotic animals until the second century A.D., and the period of their real popularity seems to have come even later — perhaps not until the Christian epoch when Greek monks came into Europe, bringing with them "purring sphinxes" to share the solitude of their cells. Curiously enough, it was the Asiatic Huns who made the cat a really indispensable animal, since they brought with them the rat that has ever since plagued Europe.

As Reinach²²⁵ and Jennison²²⁶ have pointed out, it must be remembered that the cat was so sacred in Egypt that there were not exported. Even missions were periodically dispatched to ransom those which had been smuggled out of Egypt. It seems that when Christianity spread over the land of the Nile, these barriers were let down: we may well be thankful to Christianity for the presence of our feline friend within our homes.

Dutch_labrat · 07-19-2012, 01:17 AM

Cats are at least 20% too cool for the bible.

Duke Leto · 07-19-2012, 01:24 AM

Cats are an urban animal, and most of the Bible was decidedly pastoral.

DrZoidberg · 07-19-2012, 03:29 AM

BTW, back then lions, tigers and leopards are not seen as different species. They're seen as the same animal. A bit like cats having different spots. It wasn't until the 18'th century they were classified. The various words for the animals were used interchangably. Which can cause great confusion when we read about heraldry with modern eyes.

DCHindley · 07-19-2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke Leto

Cats are an urban animal, and most of the Bible was decidedly pastoral.

You don't live in the country, do you?

In modern farmsteads, cats far outnumber dogs. Of course, they live in the barn and are not house pets.

DCH

Sheshbazzar · 07-19-2012, 05:28 AM

Cats were domesticated in the ANE around 10,000 BCE, and domesticated cats remains have been excavated in Jericho which have been dated to from before the time of Joshua's alleged siege.
The prophet Ezekiel makes a pronouncement against the city of Bubastis, (Ezekiel 30:17) literally 'The House of Bast', 'Bast' or 'Bastet' being the name of the widely worshiped 'cat goddess'.
(there is an abundance of archaelogical remains and scholarly material readily available on the Bubastis cult, so I'll leave it to any interested individuals to pursue this further.)

It certainly appears that the exclusion of any mention of domesticated cats within the Bible was a deliberate 'cultural' choice made by its various authors, one which likely was founded in reaction against other 'foreign', earlier, and more prominent religions deification of domestic cats.
These incarnate foreign 'goddesses' strutting around must have been extremely offensive to the monotheistic sensibilities of the Bibles writers.

sotto voce · 07-19-2012, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

These incarnate foreign 'goddesses' strutting around must have been extremely offensive to the monotheistic sensibilities of the Bibles writers.

So damn touchy.

Duvduv · 07-19-2012, 07:26 AM

Here is a reference that discusses mention of cats in the Talmud. I haven't check the primary sources myself so I can't vouch for what the Jewish Encyclopedia says.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4138-cat

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06-21-2011, 03:50 PM	#21
hjalti Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Iceland Posts: 761	All good translations of the bible mention cats already in Gen 1:1 :P

07-19-2012, 01:17 AM	#24
Dutch_labrat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Leiden, The Netherlands Posts: 970	Cats are at least 20% too cool for the bible.

07-19-2012, 01:24 AM	#25
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	Cats are an urban animal, and most of the Bible was decidedly pastoral.

07-19-2012, 03:29 AM	#26
DrZoidberg Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 5,746	BTW, back then lions, tigers and leopards are not seen as different species. They're seen as the same animal. A bit like cats having different spots. It wasn't until the 18'th century they were classified. The various words for the animals were used interchangably. Which can cause great confusion when we read about heraldry with modern eyes.

07-19-2012, 05:28 AM	#28
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Cats were domesticated in the ANE around 10,000 BCE, and domesticated cats remains have been excavated in Jericho which have been dated to from before the time of Joshua's alleged siege. The prophet Ezekiel makes a pronouncement against the city of Bubastis, (Ezekiel 30:17) literally 'The House of Bast', 'Bast' or 'Bastet' being the name of the widely worshiped 'cat goddess'. (there is an abundance of archaelogical remains and scholarly material readily available on the Bubastis cult, so I'll leave it to any interested individuals to pursue this further.) It certainly appears that the exclusion of any mention of domesticated cats within the Bible was a deliberate 'cultural' choice made by its various authors, one which likely was founded in reaction against other 'foreign', earlier, and more prominent religions deification of domestic cats. These incarnate foreign 'goddesses' strutting around must have been extremely offensive to the monotheistic sensibilities of the Bibles writers.

07-19-2012, 07:26 AM	#30
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	Here is a reference that discusses mention of cats in the Talmud. I haven't check the primary sources myself so I can't vouch for what the Jewish Encyclopedia says. www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4138-cat

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