aa5874

ALL I am saying, and pardon my sense of humor, like McGrath, you seem to suffer from "some other derangement syndrome".

Steven Carr

No, we just have to quote McGrath claiming 'Even fabricated material may provide a true sense of the gist of what Jesus was about, however inauthentic it may be as far as the specific details are concerned.'

Isn't it lovely when you can just trot that out whenever anybody thinks McGrath is a serious scholar and nothing like a creationist?

JonA

Depends on what kind of information you are trying to get out of it.

LOL. Completely irrelevant, even if true of all the creationists you know.

Jon

archibald

Ok. It's not an equally dodgy thing to say (on account of lower frequency of saying it) it's just a dodgy thing to say. :]

archibald

It's not even an accurate statement. It implies that historicists believe the bible is a reliable source of information. Someone is confusing 'historicist' with 'a certain type of Christian apologist'.

spin

This is true only with a popular meaning of "historical". Creationist have no interest in history. For a lot of people a historical Jesus just means a real Jesus and the epistemology is inconsequential. I bet some people who talk of a historical Jesus here still don't mean a Jesus delineated by a coherent historical methodology. And believing something is real is a matter of religion, not history.

Toto

All historicists that I have read think that there is something that can be extracted from the gospels, even if they are in general unreliable. Without the gospels or the forged Josephus passage, they have nothing to work with, and nothing they can say about Jesus except that his later followers thought that he was crucified.

Toto

I only say it in response to people who try to compare mythicists to creationists. In that context, I think it is perfectly fair and on point.

Toto

Very few people who believe that there was a historical Jesus appreciate such fine distinctions.

tanya

too narrow.

I smell the ozone, and believe an honest to goodness thunderstorm will soon arrive.

I am a three year old child in Borneo, playing with sharp knives all day long, yet I never cut myself, because I sincerely believe they are sharp.

I truly believe that the adulteress pericope is a late addition to John, an interpolation. My authentic belief in this supposition, is not based on religion, faith, dogma, or indoctrination.

Establishing the reality of objects, (animate or inanimate,) concepts, or prior experience, depends upon having consciousness, perception, and emotional stability. Drugs, trauma and disease affecting the brain, will impede our ability to determine reality.