Gamera

But but but,Osiris was against cannibalism and taught people to stop doing it and raise grain.

Now you seem to be saying that Jesus was pro-cannibalism (and didn't really know much about farming), so he's the anti-Osiris? (even though he as talking about bread and wine and not cannibalism). Is that it?

Please. You can pick any motif, generalize it or make it a metaphor and find it in any story you want. Thus, Lincoln started the Civil War, which was like eating our own children, so cannibalism is a motif that the Lincoln mythologists picked up from Osiris and created a myth about.

See? Your methodology can apply to ANY narrative and so explains none.

Jeffrey Gibson

And what arguments do you think you in all of your wisdom and knowledge can win, Fenton? Indeed, which of the ones you've posted on have you shown yourself to have had sufficient expertise, let alone the kind of expertise that Roger has on the "other gods are just like Jesus argument", to have won?

Jeffrey

Gamera

But the same applies to Alexander's birth. Or Ceasar's. Miraculous births are hardly something that requires sourcing. There's a built in sameness to any such claim.

Gamera

But that's not the issue here. The issue is whether the gospel narratives can be sourced to a reprise of the Osiris myth, as a result of a mythmaking impulse by the authors.

That claim is dubious for the reasons I suggested.

That doesn't mean that the historicity of Jesus is therefore established, just that these particular narratives aren't well explained by a recourse to mythicism.

Roger Pearse

Not one smile? What a humourless lot we all are!

Sitamun

I'm not saying I believe any such myth that I have ever read. Granted some are pretty good stories, but that's all they are. I'm not saying that since Horus was a "miraculous" birth it therefore stands that all written accounts of such are in fact true.

Perhaps I'm just confused as to what is actually being discussed. All I was pointing out was that many Christian "ideals" did not originate with Christianity which tends to help add doubt about the "holy word of god". Am I making any kind of sense at all? (I'm starting to doubt myself)

Clivedurdle

I wrote they are not identical stories but there are common themes. Something has gone wrong with what I posted so I will repeat it.

http://www.writersstore.com/article.php?articles_id=30

These are real structures, found in all stories, plays, films etc. This isn't meaningless ikeaism as you seem to want to parrot.

Where do you get the idea I or other people are making direct parallels? I am pointing out structural features like in Judaism wilderness has a similar role to the Greek underworld, because Mark seems to like fish analogies he uses these instead of corn ones, although wine stories are there.

The magic is there, the death - although it has been sanitised as baptism, as has the cannibalism.

Why are you looking for direct parallels? This is jazz, riffs, people interpreting core human issues about life death universe, their relationships with the gods in terms of their cultures and histories.

The social construction of Jesus Christ is particularly fascinating, obviously using parts from a spare parts bin of older mythology, but bashed into almost unrecognisable shapes.

Roger Pearse

No indeed. Although it would probably be sound to verify that whatever story we have heard about Horus is found in a normal encyclopedia of mythology entry on the god; and to make sure that we aren't talking trivia -- the sort of trivia whereby some people argue that pyramids in Egypt plus pyramids in Mexico 'proves' contact, instead of the fact that people with bricks will pile them up in the same way because of gravity,

If the Christian religion is true and the universe is and always has been as they say, these ideas ought to have some existence before AD 30, surely?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Yellum Notnef

What exactly is your problem now Jeffrey. Did I misspell your name again?

I had a feeling you and your reverence would come running to Rogers aid. Maybe you and Roger need to get a room, if that's Ok with Roger that is which I suspect it isn't.

My point was that the godman parallels to Jesus is like shooting fish in a barrel to the internet apologists who have passed through here throughout the years (metacrock,Nomad,Bede,Roger et al). I've been watching this for years and it's the only argument they ever have the upper hand in. Hence Rogers tireless assault here on Mithra.

Sitamun

I can't help but being a little insulted. I have loved and studied the ancient Egyptians since I was six years old. I think I know what I'm talking about. Set apart from the myths are the ancient statues depicted Isis and Horus and they are very similar to many portraits of the the virgin and baby jesus. While I was just looking for a good picture I have come across several sites that claim that Horus and Jesus are in fact the same??? Now THAT is insane, it's like saying Julius Caesar fed Christians the the lions in the Colosseum (Yes, I have in fact had someone argue this with me) Is it not easier (in my mind more believable) to say that the writers of the bible borrowed the story from the Egyptians, or any other religion with a similar story? Isis was still a popular cult up until the reign of Constantine, I'm sure the myth was well known. It is also perfectly logical to assume that the virgin birth of Horus was "borrowed" from an earlier story.

http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ndhorusvf8.jpg