Jeffrey Gibson

"Councils of Nicea?" Was there more than one Council at/of Nicea?

They did? At Nicea?

Could you show me where in the actual promulgations or decrees of Nicea that Jesus was there made to be man, let alone spirit, and that those attending the council of Nicea actually were intent to, and did, take up the question of the nature of the Trinity, let alone defined the Trinity in terms of Jesus being god, man, and spirit?

May I ask what it is besides what you heard in church that informs your claims about Nicea and what went on there? Is it direct acquaintance with the Council's decree? Anything from the scholarly literature on Nicea and the Ecumenical Councils?

Jeffrey

George S

At the first Council of Nicea, if I recall the story correctly, [I had not].

Jeffrey Gibson

Executed??!!

I think you better check your memory on this point -- as well as all of the others you mention -- against the facts. For a quick review of them, go to the look inside page on Amazon for The Encyclopedia of Early Christianity, Second Edition (Garland Reference Library of the Humanities) here (or via: amazon.co.uk) and type in "Nicea, Council of; Nicene Creed" (pp. 810-12).

I'd also suggest that to refresh your memory you read the items listed in the bibliography of that entry.

FYI, no one branded a "heretic" in the first five centuries of Christianity was ever executed for their teachings or their doctrinal stance. At worst, some were deposed from positions of importance in the church, and a number were forced to abandon the areas in which they had the most followers and influence. But none deemed "heretic" by "the orthodox" were ever out to death.

Jeffrey

George S

I remember reading that somewhere. After careful (10 whole minutes) research on the 'net I have discovered that the fate of these two was excommunication and exile. Thanks for the correction.

Jeffrey Gibson

My pleasure. But were these two -- along with Eusebius of Nicomedias and, for that matter, Eusebius of Caesarea -- actually "excommunicated" (i.e, excluded from the eucharist)?

Can you point me to what sources you found in your research that speak of them being "excommunicated".

Jeffrey

George S

First from ... http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum01.htm

First of all the affair of the impiety and lawlessness of Arius and his followers was discussed in the presence of the most pious emperor Constantine. It was unanimously agreed that anathemas should be pronounced against his impious opinion and his blasphemous terms and expressions which he has blasphemously applied to the Son of God,

* saying
o "he is from things that are not", and
o "before he was begotten he was not", and
o "there once was when he was not",
* saying too that
o by his own power the Son of God is capable of
+ evil and
+ goodness,
* and calling him
o a creature and a work.

Against all this the holy synod pronounced anathemas, and did not allow this impious and abandoned opinion and these blasphemous words even to be heard.

Of that man and the fate which befell him, you have doubtless heard or will hear, lest we should seem to trample upon one who has already received a fitting reward because of his own sin. Such indeed was the power of his impiety that Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais shared in the consequences, for they too suffered the same fate.

What fate I wondered. It was apparently common knowledge.

In http://books.google.com/books?id=WcA...um=7&ct=result I found that "Arius was exiled."

In the Wiki Arius we find

Therefore Alexander allowed the controversy to continue until he felt that it had become dangerous to the peace of the Church. Then he called a council of bishops and sought their advice. Once they decided against Arius, Alexander delayed no longer. He deposed Arius from his office, and excommunicated both him and his supporters.

This could be an error (being Wiki and all). More from same Wiki:

Arius was excommunicated by Bishop Peter of Alexandria in 311 for supporting the views of Meletius,[9] but under Peter's successor Achillas, he was readmitted to communion and in 313 made presbyter of the Baucalis district in Alexandria.

Jeffrey Gibson

None of this says or suggest that Eusebius and the two Egyptians mentioned were excommunicated at Nicea, does it?. Exiled, yes. But not excommunicated?

Jeffrey'

andrewcriddle

Technically yes.

Nicea II in 787 dealt with the veneration of Icons.

Andrew Criddle

Jeffrey Gibson

Somehow --contextualized as Rlogan statement about "Councils of Nicea" is by remarks about critical years and the 4th century and Constantine -- I don't think Rlogan had this one in mind if he was even aware of it.

And, as you note, it hardly dealt with the topic he said the "Councils of Nicea" dealt with or made the particular decision that he claimed they made!

Jeffrey

mountainman

Dear Jeffrey,

Could you explain what you think was involved in the process of being "anathematized" May we consider Arius and two others were anathematized? If so, what does this mean to you?

Best wishes,


Pete