queser

Reverts being someone growing in non muslim enviroment till past age of understanding, deciding to be non muslim and then later after contact with islam becomes a muslim.

revert meaning reverted to original state of being a born believer


just curious to know if you infidels know any reverts.

Plognark

While I think your term "natural believer" is just silly and arrogant (but not surprising), i'll let it go for now.

As to the question, No, but then, my culture is predominantly Christian, and I know very few Muslims.

Mughal

Yes, I know some locals who converted to islam but I also know the reasons they converted and some converted back to their old ways when islam did not give them what they were looking for.

Some were living on the street and since muslims offered food and shelter in the mosque, why not? Some were looking for obedient wives. So not many remain loyal to their newly found faith unless they turned to islam just for faith and they are mostly of christian back ground who became unhappy with liberal christian values like acceptance of female and gay priests etc. In their view religion should be more controlling.

So people have different reasons to turn to islam, many negative but some positive as well ie some think they can turn islam liberal by working from inside islam. For example, western muslims are trying to make islam acceptable in the west and are trying to take western sensitivities into account. Some are even leading muslim organisations eg like cat steven=yusuf islam etc.

Some people are looking for fame and muslim being so many in numbers and bringing up converts to gain validity for islam give them the fame the the convert cannot imagine otherwise.

French Prometheus

I personally don't know anyone who was born out of Islam and later fell into that sick unnatural perversion. But I know there are cases in France. I've seen them on TV.

Well, to be honest, I usually don't know the religious beliefs of the people I meet so I may have actually met one but don't know it. Quite unlikely, though.

post tenebras lux

Hi queser, not too happy about you using the words 'revert' and 'born believer', not just because of how islam views apostates, but it also just seems petty and childish. Is not! Is too!!

Anyway, I guess you could say that I know more than a score easily. Every ramadan many people disappear from my local bars. If I see them in the street, they witter something about a good muslim not going to such places. Some of them go so far as to refuse to shake my hand as I am haram.

After a week, some of them drift back - revert - to their natural - alcohol-liking - state. After another week, more come back until fewer than 10% (of the ones who normally drink) last all of ramadan without me knowing they've had a beer.

Do they count as reverts?

What about the ones who stop drinking for the haj? Or the saddest one, who disappeared from the bars for the length of the haj, and came back with a shaved head. I really did feel sad watching him drinking pints of beer.

Did he really go, and if so: why?

Luxie

Hedshaker

All I can think of is Cat stevens, top singer song writer turned religious crackpot

I'll have to give your poll a miss since the only answer I feel inclind to give is missing. That being:

* Who gives a shit!

Orbit

trendkill

I find the terminology of "revert" and "born believer" very helpful, because it strengthens Islam's position as a strong, almost point-by-point counterexample to Christianity. It really helps in refuting the idea that religion is not about memetics or culture, but some kernel of transcendent revelation inside of everyone. It's a good thing people like queser post on these boards, so that more westerners who may be in the process of unwittingly succumbing to the idea that "if they were just being honest with themselves, they would admit that Jesus is Lord" can see that the attitude of "you were really meant to think like us all along" is more likely a brainwashing tactic than the truth (since it has spectacular success in mutually exclusive ideologies).

post tenebras lux

I understand your view trendkill, along the lines of answering 'do you know your one true Lord?' with 'who, Allah?'

However, I inhabit the world of blue-on-blue, and anti-apostate, violence.

I don't like my friends being spat at and verbally abused by strangers just for walking down the street next to me. Especially if later I see the self same 'muslims' in a bar getting drunk and trying to stick their hands down the back of some 'western' girl.

Luxie

Dean Anderson

I personally know no people who grew up in a secular or Christian household and have converted to Islam.

However, I know a few people who grew up in an Islamic households and are now atheist or agnostic.

Of course, they still claim to be moslem - but only mean that in a cultural way, not in a religious way.

They don't believe in Allah or anything like that.

trendkill

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my post. Does it sound like I'm saying intolerance is a good thing? On the contrary, I'm saying that since cultural and mental imperialism, unfortunately, exists, I'm glad it's presented as-is on this discussion board so that people who read it can see it for what it really is.