Sheshbazzar

No "examination" questions?

Jeffrey Gibson

And you know that this is the case "particularly in any University with a stated strong Christian tradition and background", how?

Jeffrey

Sheshbazzar

If you want to provide evidence which disproves and refutes the statement Jeffrey, then do so.

spamandham

That depends entirely on how much of the Gospel story is true. If the answer is 'pretty much nothing', then there are at least a few possibilities:

1) Jesus is a purely fictional character

2) There is a historical root to Jesus, but it's nothing like we imagine (a vague hand wavy unknown historical root)

3) "Jesus" was an important figure from a period prior to the first century.

4) "Jesus" was a minor 1st century historical character, who's memory was quickly blown all out of proportion for other historical reasons not directly related to any aspect of his life.

...at any rate. If we start with the realization (not assumption) that the Gospels are completely untrustworthy, as they obviously are, then we really can't trust them in regard to expectations of Jesus either. They become mostly (entirely?) irrelevant in regards to any HJ argument in that regard, since they are equally compatible with any other theory du jour.

Sheshbazzar

Interesting long discussion giving perspectives from both students and teachers on the subject of "Christian Faculty" and the restrictions that are commonly placed upon freedom of conscience by "Christian" Universities.
here

Jeffrey Gibson

Your claim, your burden. I just want to know how you know what you claim to know.

Can you tell me or not?

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

So .. you went out to find "evidence" for your global and apodictic claim after you were challenged on its validity, meaning you had none of this in hand, or were aware of it, before you made your claim?

Jeffrey

aa5874

So, in effect, the HJ argument is baseless or significantly extremely weak. The internal primary source for Jesus is untrustworthy and there is no external non-apologetic information about him.

paarsurrey

Hi

On another Catholic website; I said that there is no secular historical evidence that Jesus existed. We Muslims only believe that it is written in Quran.

The Catholics could not bring a secular turstworthy evidence.

Thanks

Jeffrey Gibson

Why do you think it is the case, as you claim it is, that by virtue of their genre, their function, and their intent, Apologia, apologetic source, and "apologetic literature" from the ancient world are worthless as evidence for the historicity, and as sources for the life, and teaching, and "ministry", of the figure whose teaching, actions, reputation, and ministry they are intent to defend?

Classical scholars do not think so -- as is evident in their use of various Apologia from the ancient world to reconstruct the life and teaching and career/ministry of the figures that are defended within these works when there is no "external non-apologetic source" for that figure, or for the aspects of the life and teaching and career of that figure that the apologetic sources deal with.

So what is it that you know about ancient apologetic works and the genre of Apologia that classical scholars and professional historians don't that allows you to be as certain as you evidently are certain about the worthlessness of "apologetic" sources both as evidence for the historicity, and as source for the teaching and career and biography, of the figure such literature speaks about?

I note again with interest that despite my asking these questions before, you've ignored/dodged them altogether. May we now/finally have your answer -- which I hope will be a straight one -- to them?

Jeffrey