queser

is this part of your story? you still invisible?

you can always move to another country when oppressed unless you have no resources then bear in patiently till a solution arises, this is advice for any one being oppressed

good

so could one at least tell me there story over here since they more visible now,

.

so you implying apostates in muslim countries, though seeing as you claim they are so numerous where are the apostates from non muslim countries?

assume? make an "ass" out of "u" and "me"

remember an apostate in "my" definition is someone who believed and understood the principles of some ideology then late rejected these, i would like to know what the believed earlier and what they then rejected about islam, simple.


i have met one person in iran who said he was not muslim though he never claimed to ever be muslim before so he dont count.

i lived my whole life in non muslim countries and have yet to meet an apostate of islam

thats why i started this thread

queser

you know this though do you know under what conditions and criteria?

ask your friend mughal to explain seeing he claims to be ex muslim

i have a feeling he dont know the islamic requirements for this penalty to be executed. these requirements have to be met else one cannot kill the apostate islamically.

well mughal can prove my feeling wrong by giving us the details of the requirements

chow

MollyMac

Excuse me, queser, but why are you insisting that people must come here to tell you their stories? mughal has provided you with links to places you can read such stories and (presumably question the authors to your heart's content). Why do you have a problem with doing that? Just curious.

Mughal

Dear queser,

If I may say so, your definition of islam and muslim is incorrect because it is impractical ie it does not and cannot work. As I understand it, your definition requires a person to know islam in its totality and without fault. This is the only way one could not be expected to change one's mind ever about islam. According to traditional view even children that are just born are said to be muslims. Can you tell me what do they know about Islam?

Dear friend think about what you are actually saying ie that one cannot be a muslim unless one understood islam perfectly, how do you know what is perfect islam and how do you know that you know it totally and it has no faults whatsoever? Can you yourself prove yourself that kind of a muslim? In my view it is impossible for any such person to exist who could prove oneself a perfect muslim as per your definition, that is because none can know islam perfectly and faultfree. Learning takes time and only if you make an effort yet one can never be sure if one knows all aspecs of something or not and perfectly or not. Only if one could know islam completley and faultlessly that one could be sure that islam is true and that one is a perfect muslim.

What is required of a person to be a muslim is simply accept a set of dogmas called creed and that is it. According to muslims we were born amongst, we were muslims but as we changed our minds after realising islam through understanding, we turned our backs on islam. I found islam a false religion as well as dangerous for humanity. I have proven that beyond any doubt in my posts.

So far you have failed to filfil your own definition, so I take it that you too are not a muslim as per your own defintion of a muslim. So my friend start thinking as to what you say you believe. If there cannot be such muslims as per your definition then you are right that there cannot be any ex-muslims either, for such islam ie perfect and faultfree does not exist unless you could prove that it does.

Coming to invisibility of apostates, do you know what happens to the rest of the family when one of its members steps outside the social norm? For example, honour killings do not stop at killing the girls but the rest of the family is also boycotted by the rest of relatives and friends ie the consequential effects are wider.

Regards and all the best.

MsChutzpah

Thank you, Mughal, for those links. I appreciate it very much, as I learn an awful lot from reading them. :notworthy

queser

i dont trust that his sites are reliable, since i did read some of them and seen many strange ideas and many things that could have been written by one person

when someone posts here at least i can see when the posts comes in and i can monitor that one on other post made by that one

queser

=Mughal]Dear queser,

. you can choose to understand whatever you want

you are now on ignore again since you refuse to answer the OP

socratoad

queser, what is your problem? I have been following this thread with interest hoping that something of interest might develop, and yet all you wish to do is badger the hell out of Mughal, who has been posting in good faith, something all but you seem to readily able to recognize.. I really have admired Mughal's ability to maintain his dignity in spite of your paranoid attitude.

lpetrich

And what are they, queser? And queser, do you really think that Islamic zealots seriously care about whatever legal niceties you have in mind?

And when was anyone ever executed in public for killing an apostate in an un-Islamic manner? Yes, executed in public.

This seems like the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

queser

it seems you think i have one then you let it out

what you call sometihng of interest?

mughal refuses to answer the OP he can start a thread and ask whatever he like there and discuss what he likes there .

i suppose all you infidels you mention might think he is posting in good faith


thank you for your judgement, it is noted