Kosh

What is your evidence to support this claim?

OK, I'll play.

One of the disciples took a stone and threw it into the bushes. All the guards heard and scrambled off to the area to see what the disturbance was. Then the disciples tiptoed in (stuccuto strings sounds here) and quickly rolled away the stone while one of the others stood on the edge of the stage, oops, clearing, and nervously looked in the direction of the guards. Then they got the body, with the same disciple motioning them to hurry. They scurry off to the right just as the guards come back in from the bushes. The guards then look confused, and couple of them even bump into each other to get a bit a laughter from the audience.

Diogenes the Cynic

Even if there were any good evidence that this was anything like a common practice, it would not follow that it happened with Jesus. The denial of a proper burial (either by leaving the body on the cross or by dumping it into a criminals' grave) was part of the punishment. Turning over the body a few hours after nailing it up would have been tantamount to an admission of innocence. The Romans did not turn over the bodies of insurgents, and in the specific case of an aspiring Messiah, you had not just an insurgent but a an insurgent who was claiming to be the King of Judea- a direct challenge not only to the authority of Pilate but to Caesar himself. Pilate could not have conceded any sort of leniency to Jesus without insulting his own Emperor. Cite?

Like the empty tomb itself, Joseph of Arimathea does not appear in Christian literature until Mark's Gospel, 40+ years after the alleged crucifixion. Paul doesn't know about an empty tomb. Neither do Q or Thomas. There seems to have been no traditional site for this tomb until the 4th Century. Why would Christians go 300 years without identifying or venerating the site of the most important event in their religion?

There simply is no credible evidence that a tomb ever existed. Intimating that "sometimes" a body may have been handed over for burial does not amount to evidence that Jesus was.
There was no tomb and there were no guards. Mark and Matthew made them up.

JEST2ASK

When reading any story it is sometimes easy to spot when the author uses certain devices that scream fiction ... If there were guards and if Joe of A had dressed the body with spices a hundred weight according to one account why were the women going to the tomb and wondering who will roll away the stone for us :huh: ... Before you ask unbelievers about the disciples getting past the guards you may want to more closely examine the gospel accounts and as I requested harmonize them first ...

ynquirer

According to Jefferey Jay Lowder, many sources attest instances of burial for victims of individual - that is, non massive - crucifixion. Evidence is provided by Yehohanan, a cruficied Jew for whom remains have been found in an ossuary within his family tomb.

Diogenes the Cynic

I think it's revealing that out of the tens of thousands of people who were crucified by the Romans, the remains of only one victim have ever been recovered.

Ben C Smith

Before death: Josephus tells of how he asked Titus to bring three of his friends down from their crosses in Life 75; two of them died anyway, but one survived.

After death: We have the case of Jehohanan, crucified then buried in a family tomb. Refer also to Josephus, Wars of the Jews 4.5.2 §317 (translation based on that of William Whiston):

∏Ï?οηλθον δε εις τοσουτον ασεβειας ωστε και αταφους Ï?ιψαι, καιτοι τοσαυτην Ιουδαιων πεÏ?ι τας ταφας Ï€Ï?ονοιαν ποιουμενων ωστε και τους εκ καταδικης ανεσταυÏ?ωμενους Ï€Ï?ο δυντος ηλιου καθελειν τε και θαπτειν.

But they went on to such irreligiosity as to even cast away [the corpses] unburied, although the Jews used to take such care of burials that before the sun set they would take down and inter even those that had been condemned and crucified.

But I think the gist of this conversation is leaning away from the mere possibility of a crucified victim being shown leniency (whether restored back to life or properly buried in death) and toward the existence of proof that such a thing happened to Jesus himself. Am I right?

Ben.

Diogenes the Cynic

Correct.

Vorkosigan

Hot damn. Thanks, Ben. I needed this. That solves another problem of how the writer of Mark used Josephus.

Vorkosigan

ynquirer

Paul is witness that Jesus was buried (1 Cor 15:4). He died too early to have read Josephus…

Diogenes the Cynic

Paul also claims that he got this information from a hallucination and that it was "in accordance to scripture" which doesn't exist. Moreover, an assumption of mere "burial" does not equate to a showing of any awareness for an empty tomb tradition. Crucifixion victims could sometimes be buried in communal graves or lime pits. They just generally weren't handed over for PROPER burial or entombent