Steve Weiss

Not only did the biblical Jesus never live, there was no historical Moses, David, Solomon or Abraham either, and without those mythological persons there is no legitimacy for a Jesus as a continuation of the same tradition. The whole bible is fiction, and Jesus is just a small chapter in this overblown novel.

judge

Hard to imagine why. Mythicism is quite an easy target without using falacious arguments.

But really ..so what?
You are free to point out fallacious arguments, just as you are free to believe that "gnostic mythicists" existed, even though we have no evidence.

Christians went to great lengths to write about and refute all manner of heresies, yet, for some weird reason they didn't write about what would have been the most damaging heresy of all, that Jesus didnt even exist.

It doesn't add up.

aa5874

This is the sort of problem we have with people who have little regard for the sources of antiquity and promote their imagination.

Christians were regarded as ATHEISTS in antiquity based on Justin Martyr.

Examine "First Apology" 6

judge

Its funny I never, ever, have anyone telling me about jesus, but where I live there is a constant stream of every kind of new age philosophy. Jesus seems conspicuously absent, except the odd mention that ties him in with some new age philosophy. but even these mentions are pretty inconsequential.

I did maybe three years ago meet one girl who was part of some christian cult, but as I knew the bible better than her I was able to explain why there is no hell or devil. She was open.

Trying to tell her there was no Jesus would I suspect have been the wrong approach (even had I believed it)

Horatio Parker

And that's a good thing. Certainly we want our churches to set an example and benefit society. Even better would be less dissonance between those good things and the Nicene creed and other relics of an oppressive unspiritual past.

In the age of information when education is considered vital to survival, magical thinking is not judged to be good mental health. That many of these fundamental but problematic things are finessed by the church hierarchy is not good for membership growth, among other things. Looks like an enshrined hypocrisy.

If by that you mean Islam, Islam has been growing all by itself, without conquistadores or missionaries, for centuries. It might be a good idea to consider what makes it appealing.

til next time...

TedM

Perhaps the greatest appeal for Christians of their faith--and the one that caused orthodoxy to 'win' over the other movements--is the very claim that God became man. I think you overestimate this cornerstone of the faith of probably 99% of people who call themselves Christians. The whole idea that God himself can relate to humans because he became human (however that is accomplished) is highly appealing. More specifically, the idea that God himself accomplished what man could not do--resurrection of the human body--which enables the resurrection of all man, is the cornerstone of orthodox Christian faith.

Without a HJ, Christianity will die. Yes, many will take on some other kind of faith because that is their desire, but others--like myself--will flounder with no strong faith whatsoever, being disillusioned from having put too much faith in the ability of man to record history truthfully and accurately.

TedM

Maybe that would be even more reason to worry...it is for me. What kind of God makes a world with so much suffering that seems unjust? What kind of God will I face after I die? Sure would prefer a loving, kind, God than one who is flawed.

aa5874

You have it COMPLETELY WRONG. Why? Why? Why?

God Incarnate is NOT HJ.

God Incarnate is the Jesus of FAITH.

HJ is a REJECTION of the Jesus of FAITH that was RAISED from the dead.

This is the sort of nonsense we have on BCH.

The Jesus of Faith is MYTHOLOGICAL JESUS.

It was MYTH Jesus, the Jesus of Faith, God Incarnate that was RAISED from the dead that is FOUND in the NT.

It was MYTH Jesus, God Incarnate, that SAVED all MANKIND from Sin and gave his life for his FRIENDS and RETRIEVED his LIFE THREE DAYS later.

HJ of Nazareth was some kind of Roman rebel or apocalyptic preacher or some unknown character that is PRESUMED to have lived and died and then everybody KNOWINGLY LIED about him.

Please cut your crap.

HJ did NOTHING for mankind.

It was the resurrected MYTH Jesus.

If Christ be NOT raised then you FAITH is vain and ye are YET in your sins.

Horatio Parker

I don't understand what I overestimate.

I don't agree that orthodoxy is somehow theologically stronger than eg gnosticism. I think orthodoxy represents a mediocre theology that power broker types such as emperors found to be easier to deal with. The synergy between politics and the church coupled with the general ignorance and illiteracy of the people had more to do with it than theology.

More appealing is that God is in every human. To limit the divine to one special human distances people from God rather than bring them closer(a strategy that works in favor of authority figures). As myth, however, it's a much more powerful idea. Because it's no longer a historical event, but a living event.

As for the resurrection, it too is stronger as analogy. Because it's something we deal with all the time, something in our lives that's relevant.

We'll see. It's an interesting time for religion.

Your disillusionment supports my point that using history to answer spiritual and theological questions is the wrong approach.

If one can only see God in HJ, one can't see him anywhere, AFAIC.

Horatio Parker

I wouldn't put it quite this way, but I agree.