jules?

Joshua not only succeeded Moses but also popped up the mountain to collect the laws with him and hung around in the tent when god came calling. Unlike Moses he did get to cross the Jordan.

coincidently I heard that Joseph of Arimathia [a town that never existed] means 'good disciple' but can someone demonstrate the how this meaning comes about.

Oh and I heard that Moses' Joshua was Josh bar Nun, of the fish!

"[T]he son of him whose name was as the name of a fish would lead them [the Israelites] into the land." (Genesis Rabba 97:3.)
[from wikipedia on Nun]

Cesc

As far as I also know, "Jesus" simply means "savior".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
The Greek version could possibly have a more mystical meaning? For example considering "IE" being used for various Greek gods such as Apollo, I think I remember reading? Connected also with "Io" (as also in Iopiter) and "Ia"?

Ben C Smith

A meaning of good disciple town is, to put it kindly, a stretch and a half. May I suggest you peruse an IIDB thread from not all that long ago? The post I am linking to starts the discussion of this claim, which continues nearly to the end of the thread (about a page and a half later) and includes (A) a brief foray by R. Carrier himself and (B) a brief agreement between J. Gibson and spin against Carrier.

Ben.

SkepticBoyLee

So did anyone use the name and pronunciationg "Jesus" to call that mans name? Or was it "Yeshua"?

I think that it is signifigant.

My name is Lee. No matter where I go, it is correct to call me "Lee".


If there were some other language that was difficult to translate my written name into, my actual name would still be "Lee".

jules?

Take a name as simple as John and you get has 85 variant forms: Anno, Ean, Eian, Eion, Euan, Evan, Ewan, Ewen, Gian, Giannes, Gianni, Giannis, Giannos, Giovanni, Hannes, Hanno, Hans, Hanschen, Hansel, Hansl, Iain, Ian, Ioannes, Ioannis, Ivan, Ivann, Iwan, Jack, Jackie, Jacky, Jan, Jancsi, Janek, Janko, Janne, Janos, Jean, Heanno, Jeannot, Jehan, Jenkin, Jenkins, Jens, Jian, Jianni, Joannes, Joao, Jock, Jocko, Johan, Johanan, Johann, Johannes, John-Carlo, John-Michael, Johnn, Johon, Johnie, Johnnie, Johnny, John-Patrick, John-Paul, Jon, Jona, Jonnie, Jovan, Jovanney, Jovanney, Jovanni, Jovonni, Juan, Juanito, Juwan, Sean, Seann, Shane, Shaughn, Shaun, Shawn, Vanek, Vanko, Vanya, Yanni, Yanno and Zane.

So I don't think my mate Shaun would want to be called Johnny but when I was in Italy the newsreaders insisted on calling prince Charles; Carlos.

apparently Jesus = Yeshua had the 'a' ending dropped like the London dialect habit of dropping endings. Alright Yes-hoo!

mountainman

Where explicitly is the name of Jesus (as a full name) used and not as a nomina sacra (abbreviated format) before the fourth century? Which text toto and which date?


And secondly, where does the healer (with the same abbreviated "nomina sacra") fit in to the puzzle?

Best wishes,



Pete

Toto

I don't think that there are early manuscripts of the Septuagint, but it does contain Jesus for the Hebrew Joshua. (See this online version of the book of Joshua.) I do not think that nomina sacra were ever used in the Septuagint for the name of Joshua. Have you looked at the LXX?

mountainman

Yes, my comments however were really directed at the "earliest fragments" and the "earliest documents" of the new testament, not the LXX. In these earliest layers of the evidentiary material we are only dealing with the "nomnina sacra". Here are my notes on nomina sacra.. Pull them apart if you wish. My understanding is that the abbreviated "name" (nomina sacra) predates the full name in the chronological record. This page also examined the healer - a term which has the same "nomina sacra" of 2 letters as does "Joshua" and "Jesus". It includes an examination also of the Syriac and Coptic sources.

Here is a fourth century reference worth quoting:



Best wishes


Pete

Ben C Smith

It is my understanding that the nomen sacrum was indeed occasionally used of Joshua in the LXX.

Ben.

storytime

It was just a way that the Gospel writer tried to smooth over an obvious problem, "so that the scripture might be fulfilled".

I think some people in those days wanted an end to the old BS so they fulfilled the scripture by adding new BS, thinking that the new BS would be better.