Classical

This is my question to theists, but of course anyone else can respond. I asked this basic question in the god and logic thread, but it got lost in the shuffle.

Theists:
1.) Why would I not want to believe in the validity of your arguments that there is a God?
2.) Why would I not want to believe that I have a secure future after death in paradise where I would be happily reunited with loved ones, especially since this is what I was taught since childhood and believed for many years?

The reason why I do not accept your arguments is very simple for me. It is not because I do not want to believe them, it is because I cannot believe them. My "faith" could not survive a simple trip to a library.

There were many parts of the christian doctrine which I never did understand, although I did not question for many years. Upon entering adulthood, I began to explore some of these questions and what happened was a total reversal of everything I had believed, and this sincerely astonished me. Belief in organized religion and divine revelation were the first to crumble, then the idea of a god followed later. Now why did this happen?

The short answer for me is this: I found the arguments of the atheists much more compelling and convincing. Did I want this conclusion? Absolutely not.

Upon entering the vast complexities of the arguments, it did not take long into the reading for it to become clear that virtually all that has been argued has already been said over and over and over again. There is nothing new to say. The arguments on both sides are clearly etched in history.

The thread about using logic to prove or disprove god shows a clear demonstration that one can keep arguing until blue in the face (or red in the ink) and never get anywhere.

My bottom line?

Theists, I honestly wanted you to win the centuries-old arguments, I wanted to think God created me for a special purpose and that I would go to heaven when I die, but unfortunately, your opponents won the battle in my own mind and no reading has ever convinced me back to the contrary.

Godless Wonder

For reference, here is that thread, in case anyone digs up this thread later on, and wonders what thread was meant above.

newtype_alpha

There are alot of reasons to believe in a god and alot of reasons not to. The problem--if you can even call it a problem--is that everyone has different experiences and everyone percieves the world in different ways. So the only reason anyone would ever "want" to be an atheist is if they had never had any reason to believe in a deity (in which case they are, by default, an atheist) and the only reason anyone would "want" to be a theist is if they actually had a reason to believe in the existence of a deity (in which case they are, by default, theists). Everyone has their reasons, after all.

Then again, there's always that flaky crowd who'll switch back and forth between theism and atheism just to please whatever clique they happen to be part of at any given time

Bill B

The "truth" can be very humbling. The "truth" does not give a damn about re-inforcing our arrogant, deluded, inflated image of self importance in this universe. The truth just is what it is. And no amount of belief or faith will ever change the truth, or bring about a personal god or afterlife. Deep down inside, I suspect every religious person knows this. But, out of groundless fear and shameful lack of courage, most would rather live a lie than confront the humbling, but awe-inspiring journey into this black hole of the unknown---but unless we make this journey, we have no hope of ultimately understanding our natural universe.

FieryBalrog

you'd be surprised how deep delusions can go. People will insert wishes, hopes and fears into every truth that you throw at them. Humans are, sadly, not truthful creatures solely but wishful creatures too. I guess being truthful evolved to let us survive and being wishful evolved to let us cope when it didnt interfere directly with our survival. That's why religion is so prevalent. IMHO of course.

spuleeah

I think this very deluded person answers your question, Classical, only he doesn't know it. People deny God because the idea of Him violates their sense of "arrogant, deluded, inflated image of self imporance." This is precisely why Jesus says the following:

Gliptic

spuleeah, atheists doesn't have an "arrogant, deluded, inflated image of self imporance".

Evoken

Of course not they are natural saints

mirage

True, for example they don't think it plausible that an omnipotent sky-daddy built the universe just for them, and them "in his image", that they are being reserved a nice place in Heaven whilst the unrepentant sinners will burn in Hell, or in fact that an omnipotent Being would give a flying fuck about the mundane details of their existance, or that He would get them to do "His work".

How is that not deluded self importance? The constant guilt tripping (in a minority of believers) just doesn't balance that.

newtype_alpha

Actually, people deny theism because they haven't seen a reason to believe in theism (hence their a-theism). People deny "god"--namely Jehovah--because of either of the character of his followers or the contents of his book, or a combination of both.

As for the Bible quote, I thought I might post one of my favorite NT verses
In other words, Jehovah has no need for the wise and prudent; his followers are all gullible fools who will believe just about anything. :thumbs: That makes sense, I mean if he revealed these things to the wise and prudent, they'd probably see him for the sadistic wacko that he is.